Triple quench questons

B

blackboogers

Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
219
I searched the forums for this subject but couldent find the answer I needed. On the triple quench do you temper after each quench? Or is it heat and quench 3 times. I'm using 1084. Thanks for your replies in advance.
 
I dont see 1084 benefitting from multiple quenching, unless your just being lazy on normalizations.

Joe Renner
 
Joe is right, multiple quenching seems to benefit mainly 5160 and 52100. 1084 probably will not benefit any from a triple quench. To answer your question it is heat and quench three times and then move on to the tempering cycles. Using the 5160 or 52100 the whole cycle could be as follows: normalize three times, letting it cool completely in still air between each heat, quench three times, letting the steel cool in the oil between quenches overnight, and then temper three times allowing the steel to cool completely to room temperature between each cycle. As you can see this is a time intensive proposition.

While 1084 probably won't benefit from a multiple quench it certainly will benefit from multiple normalizing cycles and multiple tempering cycles. I've been told, and it's what I do, that when normalizing the simpler alloys like 1084 that all you need to do is let the blade cool in still air until the color fades completely to black. Light levels can make this determination hard so have a very shaded spot or use an upturned metal bucket to cut down on light. You'd be surprised how much red is left in a blade after you think it has cooled to black under normal lighting condiitons. When I heat treat 1084 I normalize three times, then quench once, then after cleaning the blade up I immediately go to a triple tempering cycle, letting the blade cool completely to room temperature between each tempering.

Sorry for being long winded, hope this helps.
 
As silent said you quench three times and then temper three times. The "Fowler" method is to wait twenty four hours between each step. One of the major benefits of the triple quench is that it helps assure the transformation of retained austenite to martensite. This should be of benefit to any alloy. And in the case of complete transformation on the first cycle, the other two won't hurt any thing as long as the steel isn't over heated. At least that was the way it was explained to me:)
 
Rather than wonder what happens, I would suggest that you forge 2 blades using the same methods. Then test the two, one with mulitple quench and the single quench. Test for edge flex, temper until each quits chipping. One may need a higher tempering temperature, or they may be the same. If mulitple quench has any influence, the MQ blade may quit chipping at a lower tempering temperature. Then test each of them for cut, compare the results. Finally try a 90 degree flex. One may be tougher than the other. If they both pass the 90 degree flex, try 180 the other way and back and forth until they both fail. Be sure and mark the tangs so you know which is which.
When I started experimenting, I tested many blades. The first year I forged blades, I did not complete one, tested them all! One of the most significant aspects of the multiple quench is use Texaco Type A. or an exact eauivalent. If there is one.
Most failures of forged blades can be laid to one of three major variables.
1) Poor steel
2) Forging too hot
3) Using the wrong quenching oil.

There are others, too hot before quenching, oil too hot or cold. You have the ability and everything you need to determine what works for your steel. Keep complete notes! Let us know your results.
 
I just wanted to get the nice multiple quench lines on the blade. Its a simple steel and I'm sure it would not benefit from a multiple quench unless I screwed up on my quench temp. Any time I work with a new steel I quench practice about 5 times(on 5 different pieces) and break the steel to see the grain. I compare to a new SKF 52100 bearing that was broken in half. If I see the silky,matte,grey color I know I am there. I also do my heating with a torch. Thanks for thr replies, especially Ed Fowler. Its really neat seeing someone who writes books responding to a forum such as this. I plan on using 52100 as soon as my forge is built. I have about 300# of SKF bearings waiting to be flattened.
 
Aside from destructive testing, which I've only just started doing, I think the most important thing Mr. Fowler pointed out was keeping complete notes! Don't think you'll remember the minor stuff either, document it all. You may make a knife that performs spectacularly but without notes you may not be able to duplicate the results.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top