True or False: A knife with one bevel is easier than two

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Knife2Grind

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May 1, 2017
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Sharpening a knife is just a daunting, unbearable experience for me.

I get disgusted just having to think about all the work that goes in to sharpening a knife. Establishing bevels, maintaining an angle, developing the dexterity to do it on both sides, meeting the apex... I just want to jump through the window right now and land head first on somebody's chihuahua as I think about it.

So here's what I'm thinking... This is my final compromise to metal knives, before I just start carrying little flint flakes around like a caveman, to do my cutting with. My suspicion is that I am more suited to a single bevel knife, than a double bevel knife. It seems like it would be so much easier to sharpen a knife if I only had to sharpen one side.

I have heard that Native Americans and early 1800s era fur trappers sharpened their knives on one side. Following is a quote by W.P Clark:

"These knives are only sharpened on one side, which seems to make them better for skinning, and, for some reason not well understood, to cut better and retain a finer edge than when sharpened on both sides, as is our custom. I have seen them cut up a deer, going right down through the backbone, cut or chop open the skull to take out the brains, and scarcely impair the edge of an ordinary knife costing about fifty cents. It is possible that the metal of the blade on the surface is better tempered, and therefore makes a better cutting edge than the central portion."

Source:

https://books.google.com/books?id=7JUIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA230

However I have no idea what the grinds on these knives would have been like, or how to sharpen them and how to regrind them when they get really dull. I don't have any power equipment or sharpening jigs, I have to do all of this stuff freehand unfortunately. So if you could help me out trying to understand what these knives might have looked like in cross section I would really appreciate it. I have imagined them as having just one chisel grind and a totally flat surface on the other side. But then there are knives such as the Yakutian knives which I also don't understand, and most sources online seem to be sketchy about describing those knives.

So please help me out cuz I'm getting really frustrated and I'm thinking about throwing all my knives away..
 
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A single-beveled edge is essentially conventional edge pivoted until one side is brought parallel with the primary grind/the blade stock. It's not really any different than a conventional edge except that the minimum angle of target approach is different from side to side and your ability to break from a cut is similarly off-kilter.
 
Not sure a quote from a book written in 1885, is what I'd base a conclusion on...

Look into guided sharpeners... lot of choices, and it would seem to eliminate most of your concerns.
 
Single bevel knives usually have a very wide bevel face, so you lay that large surface on the stone and go to town. You don't have to worry about hand movements changing the angle....that large surface area stays in contact with the stone during sharpening. Often the back side is either completely flat, or slightly hollow for easier grinding. Same principle with the back side....lay flat on the stone and go to town. Double bevel knives (excluding Scandi/mora) traditionally have a very tiny edge bevel, which is not as easy to maintain that same angle. In that sense, they are (single bevel knives and double bevel scandis) are easier to sharpen.
 
Echoing Stuart's comment about the bevel usually being much wider on single-bevelled edges, I agree it should be simpler to maintain. BUT, if that wide, single bevel has gone too long without adequate maintenance & touchups, it can be a very slow-going process getting a crisp apex back on it. Even more so, as most of the single-bevelled blades I've seen are also relatively thick stock, meaning much more work to grind all that 'dull' metal away. So, for an edge that's pretty dull to begin with, I'd generally find it a bit easier to grind both sides of a double-bevelled edge with much narrower bevels, and often thinner stock overall (Scandi being a possible exception), and 'meet in the middle' at the apex.

I say the above, based on how I react when looking at old, well-used chisels or plane blades that need new edges. First I cringe, then I spend a long time trying to get myself motivated for the task. I don't get as intimidated looking at a simply dull, but relatively thin-edged double-bevelled blade.


David
 
Knife2Grind said:
Sharpening a knife is just a daunting, unbearable experience for me.

I get disgusted just having to think about all the work that goes in to sharpening a knife. Establishing bevels, maintaining an angle, developing the dexterity to do it on both sides, meeting the apex... I just want to jump through the window right now and land head first on somebody's chihuahua as I think about it.

So here's what I'm thinking... This is my final compromise to metal knives, before I just start carrying little flint flakes around like a caveman, to do my cutting with. My suspicion is that I am more suited to a single bevel knife, than a double bevel knife. It seems like it would be so much easier to sharpen a knife if I only had to sharpen one side.

I have heard that Native Americans and early 1800s era fur trappers sharpened their knives on one side. Following is a quote by W.P Clark:

"These knives are only sharpened on one side, which seems to make them better for skinning, and, for some reason not well understood, to cut better and retain a finer edge than when sharpened on both sides, as is our custom. I have seen them cut up a deer, going right down through the backbone, cut or chop open the skull to take out the brains, and scarcely impair the edge of an ordinary knife costing about fifty cents. It is possible that the metal of the blade on the surface is better tempered, and therefore makes a better cutting edge than the central portion."

Source:

https://books.google.com/books?id=7JUIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA230

However I have no idea what the grinds on these knives would have been like, or how to sharpen them and how to regrind them when they get really dull. I don't have any power equipment or sharpening jigs, I have to do all of this stuff freehand unfortunately. So if you could help me out trying to understand what these knives might have looked like in cross section I would really appreciate it. I have imagined them as having just one chisel grind and a totally flat surface on the other side. But then there are knives such as the Yakutian knives which I also don't understand, and most sources online seem to be sketchy about describing those knives.

So please help me out cuz I'm getting really frustrated and I'm thinking about throwing all my knives away..
Click to expand...
Hi,

If you dread sharpening a knife,
then it doesn't matter what kind of grind it has,
how easy it is to sharpen,
you've told your brain this is going to be impossible,
and your brain won't dissapoint,
it will make sure you're not having fun

You need to trick your brain more than you need a new kind of knife

Seriously, if you pretend sharpening is going to be wonderfully easy, say it out loud,
sharpening is wonderfully easy and I am sharpening this knife laser sharp right now,
you'll trick your brain, you'll be able to do it, positive attitude goes a long way



Now What kind of sharpening equipment do you own?
How many minutes per day do you spend with knife in hand cutting stuff?
What kind of stuff do you cut?
Do you own any binder clips?
What knives do you own (names, brands, types, lengths, any info)?
 
Chisel ground edges very well might be easier to maintain for folks with limited skills, and there are a number of makers who offer them. IIRC Richard J made many knives that were flat on one side and shallow convex on the other, and provided very strong performance.

One side the angle is always dead on - you just lay it flat on the stone. The other side will be more broad and take longer to grind than most double bevel but it might be an easier skill to acquire than learning both sides. The wider bevel will provide more tactile feedback and act as a bit of guide in its own right due to the greater surface area. Also, the more broad the bevel, the better it will respond long term to being maintained on a strop without rounding (all thing being equal).

It will cut with a bias on thicker materials and want to shift through the cut, but for most work it won't make any difference. Who knows, after a few it may teach you enough that you can go back and properly sharpen up your double bevel knives.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Echoing Stuart's comment about the bevel usually being much wider on single-bevelled edges, I agree it should be simpler to maintain. BUT, if that wide, single bevel has gone too long without adequate maintenance & touchups, it can be a very slow-going process getting a crisp apex back on it. Even more so, as most of the single-bevelled blades I've seen are also relatively thick stock, meaning much more work to grind all that 'dull' metal away. So, for an edge that's pretty dull to begin with, I'd generally find it a bit easier to grind both sides of a double-bevelled edge with much narrower bevels, and often thinner stock overall (Scandi being a possible exception), and 'meet in the middle' at the apex.

I say the above, based on how I react when looking at old, well-used chisels or plane blades that need new edges. First I cringe, then I spend a long time trying to get myself motivated for the task. I don't get as intimidated looking at a simply dull, but relatively thin-edged double-bevelled blade.


David
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The thickness of the blade stock has little bearing on difficulty of sharpening. Only HOW MUCH bevel is present. Thickness plays a tiny part in that. Rather, it is simply the angle & how wide the blade is. (Wide, not thickness)
 
DavidHoback said:
The thickness of the blade stock has little bearing on difficulty of sharpening. Only HOW MUCH bevel is present. Thickness plays a tiny part in that. Rather, it is simply the angle & how wide the blade is. (Wide, not thickness)
Click to expand...

Thicker stock will have a visually wider bevel for equal grind angle. Wider blades allow for lower angle grinds while maintaining a given spine thickness.
 
DavidHoback said:
The thickness of the blade stock has little bearing on difficulty of sharpening. Only HOW MUCH bevel is present. Thickness plays a tiny part in that. Rather, it is simply the angle & how wide the blade is. (Wide, not thickness)
Click to expand...

My point being, a thicker blade ground to a given edge angle will have a wider bevel than a blade of thinner stock ground to the same edge angle. Hence, the thicker blade will ALWAYS take more time and more metal must come off, to meet the same edge angle.


David
 
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True for people sharpening manually on a bench stone. The bevel is wide enough to sit flat on the stone for grinding and easy to maintain the angle. The back, once flattened, doesn't need to be ground. A simple swipe on the stone turns the burr. False for people using guided systems.

The single bevel grind comes from Japan and its purpose has always been ease of maintenance on a bench stone.
 
Knife Outlet said:
Ok, would like to enlighten us on what you view as correct?
Click to expand...

Even a little cursory research will give you all the answers you need, but here's just a little to help you get started. :)

Single bevels have been used around the globe for centuries. The Japanese just use them more frequently in knives than most other cultures did/do because it's a comparatively specialized grind configuration. The purpose of a single bevel is almost never for ease of maintenance, and rather for deflection management and impacting the minimum angle of approach to the target. They are primarily used for paring cuts where a relatively thin amount of material is being removed from a larger mass and/or the cut surface is intended to be as smooth/flat as possible.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Even a little cursory research will give you all the answers you need, but here's just a little to help you get started. :)

Single bevels have been used around the globe for centuries. The Japanese just use them more frequently in knives than most other cultures did/do because it's a comparatively specialized grind configuration. The purpose of a single bevel is almost never for ease of maintenance, and rather for deflection management and impacting the minimum angle of approach to the target. They are primarily used for paring cuts where a relatively thin amount of material is being removed from a larger mass and/or the cut surface is intended to be as smooth/flat as possible.
Click to expand...

That is a benefit of single bevel knives but the Japanese knife makers will tell you that the primary purpose is ease of maintenance. The Japanese have been making single bevel knives for more than 800 years.
 
The Japanese knife makers may offer that up as an answer but it doesn't make it the truth. Chances are they just make them like that because "that's the way you're supposed to make these traditional knives". However, the rest of the edged tool-using world didn't get the idea for single-beveled cutting tools from the Japanese, and it's not the primary reason for knives to be made with a single bevel.
 
IDK, I'm not invested in this aspect of the conversation, but the OP linked book that clearly describes chisel ground knives was published in the late 1880s. Is unlikely the native Americans were getting them in trade from Japan.

It might be they were easier to grind for a trade knife, but the author does not mention this nor do any other references to trade knives I've come across. However, the native Americans weren't smelting/forging their own knives to the best of my knowledge - there were undoubtedly exceptions.
 
Honestly it depends which sharpening method you use. I find that chisel ground edges are not necessarily easier (though maybe abit) for me to sharpen but definitely faster. That is because I use a stupid method to sharpen because I have lousy equipment and terrible skills.

When I sharpen V ground bevels I actually avoid making a burr. I can get a knife from sort of sharp to shaving sharp. I have trouble reprofiling. On the V grinds I just do a stroke on one side, then flip the knife and do a stroke on the other side. It takes forever but it seems to work. When sharpening a chisel grind because I don't have to flip the knife after each stroke I am more able to quickly go back and forward on the one side then just knock the burr of the back of the other side.

For sharpening I use my sharpmaker stones free handed. This is because I found most knives did not match the preset angles in the jig 30 and 40 degrees close enough for me to get the results I wanted. Instead I learned to match the angle by laying the edge bevel against the stone then carefully swiping. Honestly I ruined a few decent knives while learning but now that I'm practiced it works well. Just have to make sure I don't let my blades get too dull before touching them up.
 
C
FortyTwoBlades said:
Thicker stock will have a visually wider bevel for equal grind angle. Wider blades allow for lower angle grinds while maintaining a given spine thickness.
Click to expand...


Correct! Thank you for adding that part for me.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
The Japanese knife makers may offer that up as an answer but it doesn't make it the truth. Chances are they just make them like that because "that's the way you're supposed to make these traditional knives". However, the rest of the edged tool-using world didn't get the idea for single-beveled cutting tools from the Japanese, and it's not the primary reason for knives to be made with a single bevel.
Click to expand...

OK. We'll just disagree. Take care.
 
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