Trying to ID Antique Sword or Dagger

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Ellejay1066

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Apr 25, 2021
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Hello, trying to figure out the type and/or origin of this antique sword or dagger found in British Columbia, Canada around mid to late 1800s by great grandparents of somebody I know. The blade is 18 inches long from the tip to the hilt shaft, and total length is 24 inches. Any help in figuring out what it is, or any help with placing it's age or origin would be greatly appreciated. Apparently the Spanish explored near Vancouver Island in 1770's, but thought it also could belong to a Russian fur trader or even a British captain's sword. It's hilt has a really ornate decorative pattern with what looks like a devil head symbol and then the hilt has 4 circles on each side, 8 in total, with a diamond shape in the middle. https://imgur.com/a/aaSvj3O
 
So I'm going to take your friend at their word and assume that this piece has been kicking around in the family since 1850 or thereabouts and is not a modern piece that we can just dismiss as a modern piece by MRL or similar out of hand. If you hadn't added that bit that would have been my first guess.

If I was to guess I would say that it is a piece made in the mid to late 1800s. During that period there was something of a medieval revival a noted by the so called "Gothic revival" in architecture and a renewed interest in things medieval, particularly weaponry and armor as well as art. I don't believe that this piece came from either a Spanish explorer nor Russian fur trader nor a British captain. Generically the nominal style of it is too early for any of those worthies to be carrying it around. Notice that I said "style of it" I don't think that it is nearly as old as the style purports it to be. For one thing it's an odd amalgam of what one might consider late renaissance forms i.e. that decoration on the grip, combined with what might thing was a much earlier (and simpler cross) and a rather odd blade that doesn't fit with any of those things. Notably the grip is also of a very strange design something I might expect on a renaissance stiletto rather than a sword hilted dagger. In short, it doesn't look like a genuinely old piece, i.e. something from medieval times but it might be just what someone from the 19th century might envision a medieval piece might look like. There was a brisk business in decorative medieval pieces in the 19th century (and fakes too). There just weren't enough genuine pieces to go around.

You said that your friends great grandparents found the piece, does family lore happen to say where? (Not that family lore is particularly reliable but we have to start somewhere.) It doesn't look like it has spent any appreciable time exposed to the elements so if they claim they found it in the backyard I would be a bit dubious. If it was in a house or public building or antique store that would be more believable and would lead credence to my 19th century reproduction theory.

Is it sharp? If so that might also support my theory and put to bed, my other thought that it might have been made for the stage or pageant, although truth be told, the detail work on the handle probably wouldn't be visible on stage which mitigates against it being for that purpose anyway.
 
Thank you so much for responding, it's actually my cousin's other side of their family's grandparents or actually his dad's grandparents or great grandparents who found it, so I asked my cousin's dad if he knew anymore about it, and he said he is not sure exactly specifically when or where it was found, but thinks it was possibly found around Prince George or maybe Prince Rupert (and I think found outdoors, although I can't say definitively) and actually may have been found as early as the late 1700's to mid or so 1800's, i.e., possibly before the Transcontinental Railroad, which was 1860s-1870s. So although it could be a novelty sword, "if" hypothetically, it was found before the TCR, then it would be a little odd that there would be merchants selling swords for novelty purposes when functional purpose goods were in such high demand.

So provenance aside, if 'hypothetically,' it was found outdoors, and in Western Canada, pre-TCR, would this make a difference on what it might be? I thought it looked like a Ciquedea when I looked online at pictures but I honestly don't know anything about swords or daggers, or who would be carrying what kind out here. My cousin's dad thought it looked sort of Siberian/Asian or Russian, hence the Russian fur trader theory, but none of us actually know. We're all just curious about it, so were hoping maybe somebody might know. I don't know if any of this additional information helps but any info is much appreciated as it has always been such a mystery to everyone. They are not trying to sell it or anything, the family is just really curious about where it may have come from. Thank you again, I really appreciate it.
 
It pays homage to the Italian Cinquedea of the 16th century but is nowhere near as elaborate or the age.

What you have is a fraternal society Degree Team sword, associated with the Independent Order of Odd Fellows. This type of sword would have been worn by a fraternal member who’s role was to present awards/degrees to other members. (Ref. American Fraternal Sword, Kaplan Marino collection example no. 172).


N2s
 
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WOW, that's amazing that you found it, you totally just solved the mystery, thank you so much! Looks like the society was founded in 1819, so that could fit the time frame, that has the exact same design on it's hilt, although can also tell it's made from different materials, doesn't look as durable, and I know the one my cousin's father has, was strong enough to split wood. What an odd history, no pun intended... ;) Very interesting to say the least. Thanks so much!
 
Very nicely done! I had thought about fraternal pieces also but I had never seen one of this pattern.
 
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