Trying to set up a shop for knife making...

S

SpeedyGonzales

Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
25
Greetings,

This is my first post here... I'm interested in making kniffs... But need help in knowing what tools I would need...

I already have quite a few tools in my shop that would lend well to knife making so I figure, why not purchase a few of the specialized things and make some nice knives.

Things I have thus far:

* Eye protection / Respirator / Fire Extinguisher
* Small Sherline metal lathe with vertical milling column (I assume this would be able to carry out most of the milling tasks required in knife making... Or is it inadequate for that???)
* Industrial buffer with cabinet
* Oxygen / Propane Torch - plus the typical bernz-o-matic
* Typical hard wheel grinder
* Sturdy Vice
* Hax Saw & Jewelers Saw
* Lots of hand files and various grit papers from 120 to 1500
* Simple hydraulic shop press (20 Ton)
* Dremel (Actually a foredom flex shaft)... with lots of abrasive attachments..
* Various hammers & pliers

I want to eventually make some nice folders.

Here is what I 'think' I'll need but am not experienced enough to know.

* Belt grinder: KMG or similar
* Furnace / Kiln: Paragon, Evenheat, or similar
* Metal bandsaw: Not sure who makes a good one?? Help me out please...
* What else do I need?

I made this little fixed blade because I was really curious about making a knife. It was just a fun project to gain some experience... The blade is mild steel so it's just for decoration or letter opening... and the handle material is Cocobulo with brass pins (engraved). I put epoxy inbetween the tang and wood and pins... Still not sure what I'm doing but couldn't resist the urge to make 'something'.

http://www.shareimages.com/image.php?59025-qpmWm5Sck6CimaE-first_kniff_e.jpg

http://www.shareimages.com/image.php?59026-qpmWm5Sck6CimaE-first_kniff_e2.jpg

Thanks for your's helps!
 
59026-qpmWm5Sck6CimaE-first_kniff_e2.jpg


Welcome & it looks like you are going to do well at this.

That's not a bad first knife.
Things I would improve
Specifically, the pins look out of line and low of the centerline.
and it looks pretty straight.
Read this
The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

It looks like the Coccobolo scales may have been varnished?
oil finishes are more popular and more durable.


Portable bandsaws - portabands are pretty popular.
Dewalt, Milwaukee, Harbour-freight.





I've put this together to answer most of a new maker’s questions. I'm sure it will help you too.

The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V15

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos

BladeForums - E-books or Google books


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings & the Loveless book. Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.

Forget about Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.

Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

The best video on leather sheath making for beginners that I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with machine stitchers..)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info. Use the keywords “LurkerLurker torrent” “knifemakerC torrent” and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use O1, A2, D2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you want to heat treat yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel, 1070, 1080, 1084.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for knifemaking.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

1095 is a good carbon steel with great results, but is a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 needs very good temperature control and proper fast quench oil Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel


You can find a list of suppliers here

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Photo of a nice bevel filing jig

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and put on safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309



Searching
Search works for ALL users, even unpaid users.
Try it, I’ll bet you’re not the first to ask the question here


V15 Added Craftsman speed modific
 
Sounds like you're off to a good start. You already have a lot more than I started with, and sounds like you will soon have a lot more than I have now!

This same question has been asked quite a few times. Sounds like you got a lot of $$$ to burn. You might want to drop the heat treat oven for now.

The KMG is an excellent grinder, I plan on getting one soon. If you drop the HT oven you can go for the gold and get a TW-90 Grinder. Its been said over and over to get the best grinder you can afford. The KMG is great, but word around the campfire is the TW-90 beats it.
 
9" Disc grinder with reversible rotation and variable speed through a VFD. Have the VFD wired to control your belt grinder too for variable speed on it.

Welcome to BF!

Brian
 
Thank you for the warm welcomes and information thus far... I really appreciate it!

So much good info in that first post... Nice to see some free videos online too!

Wow, that TW-90 is quite the machine!! Really nice... I can't quite afford that much at the moment and would be happy to have the KMG or even lesser... especially after suffering through to make this knife! Thanks for showing the machine though... Wow.

I found the disc grinder suggestion interesting... I'm sure it would be a nice addition. What would it do that a belt grinder doesn't? (asking out of ignorance).
 
Disc grinders are good at getting flat grinded blades flat. Squaring up handle material too. AC Richards used only a disc grinder for years before he got a 2"x72".
You can get one with a 1 degree bevel, so the longer blades only contact a 4.5" part of the grinder.
This is the disc grinder set up I'm ordering Monday.. I'm ordering both the 1 degree bevel disc and the standard flat disc. http://www.nielsendesigndiscgrinder.com/Welcome.html

I have this 2"x72". http://www.polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html It's packed for moving and is almost, but not quite finished, but I'm VERY happy considering the cost. I am setting it up so the VFD controller will also control the disc grinder.
 
That's a nice disc grinder... So if you don't desire the variable speed, you could transform a typical grinder by just adding the hub, a disc with the abrasive paper, and coming up with a work rest?

The grinder looks nice too!
 
No, you should buy a dedicated motor for the disc grinder. Due to metal grinding dust getting into the windings and over time ruing the motor, a TEFC (totally enclosed fan cooled) motor is best. Same with VFD controllers. With them you are best getting one with a NEMA 4 enclosure to keep out dust and moisture.
Depending on your money available. Some guys make super knives with the Craftsman 2"x42" belt grinder. It is 200 dollars or less when on sale.
 
fluidsteel said:
Depending on your money available. Some guys make super knives with the Craftsman 2"x42" belt grinder. It is 200 dollars or less when on sale.
Click to expand...

I use a Craftsman 2x42. I got it on sale at Sears for $120. Its the best machine for the price. But if you can, go with a better machine. Get the best grinder you can afford, period.
 
How about about a drill press and selection of drill bits?

Radio to play tunes while you work.

High tension hacksaw.

Maker's Mark putter-onner (etch or stamp).

Quench tank.

tongs

Shop vac to clean up all the wood and metal particles you'll make.

Fan to cool you off on hot days.

refrigerator for refreshing beverages.

Angle grinder

Flat granite surface

Anvil type of work area, maybe a piece of railroad track.

Clamps, screw type.


This is really fun spending someone else's money.

- Paul Meske, Wisconsin
 
Always remember to check your local craigslist, i picked up a 2x42 craftsman for 40 dollars, flea and or swap markets are also great resources!! Have fun!
 
GTH11 said:
Always remember to check your local craigslist, i picked up a 2x42 craftsman for 40 dollars, flea and or swap markets are also great resources!! Have fun!
Click to expand...

Yup. You can download an app if you have a smart phone that will continuously search for items in your area on Craigslist.

I got a 129# Kohlswa anvil for 150 bucks 15 minutes after it was listed....

I use SearchTempest as it searches Craigslist cities in a specified radius and ebay as well....

For a bandsaw, you could get a DeWalt or Milwaukie portaband and http://www.swagoffroad.com/Porta_band_Modular_Mount_Product.html this stand, or, of course if you have more room and money, get a full size metal cutting band saw.

Furnace/Kiln Paragon, Evenheat and Sugar Creek are some of the better known... Get a digital controlled model. It will allow you to work more steel types easierish.....

There will be a few knife specific items needed too.... Dykem for marking the blades to lay out grind lines etc...A centerline scribe for marking center lines. In a pinch 1/4" steel can be marked by running it along the point of a 1/4" drill bit. Some people use a slightly undersized drill bit and flip the steel to mark two lines just either side of center....

Leather tools/kydex for sheaths.

If you use Corby or Loveless style bolts, a step drill bit is sold specifically for them.

A nice scribe.

Micrometer.

A granite flat surface plate was mentioned. A 12" granite tile from a big box hardware store works to start.

Good lighting.

A file guide, preferably hardened steel to help set your plunge lines.

Chainsaw files. They are not tapered and can be used to hand file the plunge lines. I've heard it recommended 3/16" file for 3/16" blade...

Two part epoxy.... Use the Bladeforums search engine and lookup Glue Wars for which "glue" you want to use.
Search is your friend.. It's always good to ask questions, but, most general questions have been asked and answers are available in the archives.
 
SpeedyGonzales said:
That's a nice disc grinder... So if you don't desire the variable speed, you could transform a typical grinder by just adding the hub, a disc with the abrasive paper, and coming up with a work rest?

The grinder looks nice too!
Click to expand...


Yes, you can add a disc to a grinder, but you DO want variable speed.

- depends on what you are calling a typical grinder - I'm thinking pro quality 2x72 belt grinder - what are you thinking?
 
Lots of good advice... I especially appreciate the metal bandsaw advice too...

I have a cheap drill press too... It would be nice to have something more expensive down the road,.. but for now It'll have to do.

I just acquired a few books today. The $50 kniff shop... and a Loveless book on making kniffs... Looking forward to reading more.

Thanks guys!
 
welcome speedy. i'm south of you around columbus. it looks like you're off to a good start. if you are up for a road trip and want to learn a few things come down and i'll be glad to teach you. send me an email with your number and i'll give you a call. rje196021@gmail.com

i have a 9" disk sander that i made and i can teach you how to use it. with your lathe and mill you should be able to make your own real easy too. i also made my own belt sander and i can send you pictures with measurements so you can make your own too.

i use nothing but 1075 and i make some really good knives from it. all i use is torch to do the heat treat with. (i have around 500+ pounds of it too)
 
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