Tuf-Glide / Tuf-Cloth

S

savageedge

Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
29
i was wondering if you guys could help me. sentry solutions says the glide and cloth are the same product. plus or minus the cloth. does anyone out there use tuf glide alone as blade protection. do you find it works just as well as the tuf-cloth. lastly... can i truly buff the tuf treated blades to a high polish and still have protection.
 
I think the cloth is worth having. It comes with a spiffy sealable pouch to prolong the life of the product. What ever you are using to apply your Tuf Glide, you probably need the same kind of thing to preserve the Tuf Glide you loaded it with.

I suspect the volume of active product is also significantly higher in the Tuf Cloth so you can lay on a better coat more easily. The Cloth was selected as an ideal medium to apply the product. Tuf Cloth is also a product that won't add lint or otherwise react with the product. I don't know that you can claim that with any old cloth.

It's not even that expensive so the economy you seem to be searching for doesn't seem to really be there. Tuf Glide is mostly inactive fluid so the active ingredients can flow into tough spaces. You're paying for a lot of inactive ingredients. Tuf Cloth gives a more concentrated dose of the protection in open spaces that get more use and wear.

That said, I don't think you can get the level of protection with Tuf Glide alone that you can get by using both products in their intended roles. Buffing off the light coat of Tuf Glide probably doesn't leave much protection.

Phil
 
thanks. good points. tuf-cloth it is. do you know if i can buff tuf-cloth to a nice finish after application and maintain protection.
 
Originally posted by savageedge
thanks. good points. tuf-cloth it is. do you know if i can buff tuf-cloth to a nice finish after application and maintain protection.
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If I'm understanding right, you're asking if you can tuff cloth the blade, polish the blade, and still have protection?

Why wouldn't you just tuff cloth it after you polish it?
 
exactly... thats what im intending. clean, polish, tuf-cloth....
i have heard that tuf-cloth leaves a cloudy, streaky finish?
thats why i was asking about buffing after tuf-cloth.
 
Originally posted by savageedge
exactly... thats what im intending. clean, polish, tuf-cloth....
i have heard that tuf-cloth leaves a cloudy, streaky finish?
thats why i was asking about buffing after tuf-cloth.
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The normal tuff cloth doesn't, as far as I can tell. The marine tuff cloth might. But if you're using the normal one, it should like fine.

If you're using the marine tuff cloth, if you buff off the "finish" (assuming there is one), you're also going to remove the protection.
 
I've talked to the people at Sentery Solutions a lot. I sell it, I had to because I've recomended it for years, and people would call me up asking where to get it.
It will rub off. They told me that if you put it on your pistol, then practiced your draw for a while, the holster would rub streaks off. the same with knives. leather seems worse then kydex. Just reapply, it's really not that expensive.
If you're going for museum type look flitz or museum wax might be worth looking into. I haven't hade any cloudyness on polished 440-C from Tuf-glide.
 
The Marine Tuf-Cloth pouch says right on it that you can buff off the cloudy residue without affecting the protective qualities.;)
 
If have done repeated salt water soaks on knives that were treated with Marine Tuf-Cloth and then had been used for a few minutes for light work, it was as if nothing had been applied at all. Thus you can easily buff the coating right off.

-Cliff
 
Tuf-Cloth is a cloth that has Tuf-Glide on it. I have both and usually I just use a cotton bore cleaning patch with some Tuf-Glide to protect my steel. This is the only stuff that I use for protecting blades or firearms (I don't use it for lube though.)

It says on the bottle that you apply it, wait a little for it to dry (wait for the mineral spirits to evaporate) and a sheen will appear. You then lightly rub off the slight haze (more like streaks) and the blade looks like it is uncoated but it is still protected.

I have a piece of steel that I am making into a knife and I used Tuf-Glide on it. After some grinding, I went to the sink and washed it off and the steel almost felt like it was waxed. Very bizarre how the stuff works, but I'm sold on it as a protectant.

If you can only have one, I'd say get the Tuf-Glide and use some cotton pieces to apply it. If you can get both the glide and the cloth, you can keep using the cloth over and over and over. Even a small bottle goes a looooong way.
 
Mark from Sentry Solutions here-

For accuracy, TUF-CLOTH and TUF-GLIDE have the same active ingredients. TUF-CLOTH effectively has a higher load. MARINE TUF-CLOTH has additional corrosion inhibitors to provide a heavier film of protection.

No, the protection is not removed simply by buffing off the excess. And yes this is because the products really do bond to the metal. I have an electronmicrograph which shows the nature of the bonding. Please email me to receive the image if you are interested.

To attain this bonding and get the full benefits of any our products it is important to apply them to clean residue free surfaces. You should let any item you wipe, dry, and if possible, stand for an hour or so.

None of our products are rust removers and in order to prevent rusting, all rust must be removed. This can be very difficult to do. In our many years of experience we have found it is often necessary to use physical and chemical means. Steel wool or similar and phosphoric acid. It is critical to neutralize any chemical rust removers before any further steps to prevent rust.

I hope this helps.
 
Sentrysolutions,

Could you PLEASE take a look at this thread and answer some of the questions we all had on the products. Here is the link:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190573&highlight=marine+tufcloth


The question I really have is sort of twisted, let me lay it down here.

So I have the marine tuf-cloth and I wipe the entire clean blade down with it and let it dry./ On the surface is the cloudy film which is tacky to the touch, that is the only way I can describe it. THIS FILM seems like a good barrier against rust in itself, and supposedly it is bonded with the metal. Once this surface film is BUFFED away and I have a nice sheen on the blade, how much protection is left?

Now you cannot argue that once the film is removed you have ALL the protection the product provides, because since the top-most film is obvioulsy covering the steel well, it MUST be performing protection properties. What I want to know is HOW MUCH MORE PROTECTION it provides when you leave the film on as opposed to buffing the film off, which SUPPOSEDLY leaves a microcrystalline(sp?) film bonded to the surface. Please help me maybe I am just thinking too much about this stuff.

Just so Sentry Solutions doesen't think this is an attack, I have been using your products for over 5 years on things from fishing reels to knives and IMO it does work somewhat well. I use marine tuf-cloth, hi-slip grease, and tuf-glide in different applications so i am not bashing your company. I have just been thinking and experimenting with different things and think it is a good niche product, but I am not sure how well it is actually working when I buff away at it. I feel the tuf-glide and regular tuf-cloth leave a film which is much more "slick" than the marine variety and it seems to buff/wipe away quite easily, while the marine tuf-cloth is a bear (well not impossible but more work than two or three swipes) to get all the smudges/streaks off the blade. After I wipe a blade smooth and shiny, how long will the tuf-cloth last when exposed to Saltwater?

I realize that some of my question both in this post and the others in the link are impossible to answer but please do your best. Thanks for the time.

JC
 
If I understand the claims correctly, the Tuff Stuff, whatever the active ingredients are, is supposed to bond to the metal at a microscopic level and is not removed by buffing. Sure, the tacky coating may come off, but the real, effective protection is , unlike oils etc, due to the microscopic bonding - not the more macroscopic coating. I make no judgement or analysis of the claim and I'm not disparaging it.

I've used all three products for years. Unfortunately, I have to say that my experience is pretty much consistent with Cliff's. For anything approaching hard use or challenging conditions, I see little protection. That's just my experience, and it might be due to applying the stuff incorrectly etc. But I can't make it work any better. Then again, nothing else I try offers much better protection, unless it is frequently reapplied.
I do use it on my dress and show pieces, and sometimes Ren Wax. I do use it in the field too because it's a great cloth and pouch and I think it offers some protection, and it attracts fewer bears than vegetable oils - I hope. The Glide's applicator is great for getting at tough spots in folders too.

I'm hoping the folks at Sentry will come up with something better, but for light use knives, or where you can clean and reapply often, I think you should be able to use it and even buff it and get some protection. In any event, it shows your knives that you care :)
 
I e-mailed him requesting the pics and had some more specific questions related to their product.

For you guys that have these products, try running water over one of the blades that you protected it with. It feels like something weird is on it, like a polymer surface or something. I know that's probably off base but I dig the nature of chemistry and truly am interested on how this product interacts with metal on a molecular basis.

Militec-1 has kind of the same mystique. I have no idea what the heck it is (smells bizarre) and they claim it 'stiffens metal.' All I know is that it works at least if not better to CLP. On my days back at thefiringline.com I would have laughed at this stuff, but I have found that these products work good for their specific niche.

Maybe I'm trippin and it's voodoo science. I'd certainly like some technical answers to the theory behind these products.
 
In regarding to the "bonding" that is a very vague term that can mean anything, or nothing and thus it is hype with a specific reference to the strength of the bond. For example if you dip a knife in water and draw it out, water will remain on the blade "bonded" to it. When you apply oil to a blade it will bond to the steel, as will just about anything to anything to anything else to some degree due to intermolecular attraction and shape adhesion by intramolecular cohesion.

HJK :

Then again, nothing else I try offers much better protection, unless it is frequently reapplied.
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Yes same with me. However nothing else is any worse either, so now I just use whatever oil or grease I happen to have. The main advantage that I found for the Sentry products was in ease of application. In regards to faulty preperation causing the results I have seen, if the blades have to be degreased, put in an acid bath, and then a de-hydrator for an hour before the product makes a stable bond, then it is obviously not functional for field use. What do you do when it is raining or just really humid (assuming you carry a de-greaser and navel jelly with you of course)?

Lab testing is wonderful but you should check to see how realistic the controls you are using apply to actual use. It may be that when the blades are prepared in that three stage manner that the bonding is strong enough to remain after the knife has been used. However that is a non-issue except for archival purposes and this isn't the main promotional usage of this product. How many "Navy Seals" used the product in this manner on thier knives? Does it say on the package in clear readable printing that this is necessary to achive a stable bond?

I use knives all the time in weather such they they will rust in a visible amount in just 10-15 minutes if left unprotected, as most of my work knives are simple steels like 5160 which corrode rapidly. However it is trivial to prevent corrosion by just keeping them in use which burnishes off rust as it is forming and doing a simple cleaning and oiling at the end of the day. I don't always do the cleaning and thus a patina will eventually form along the main primary grind. The edge is usually oiled every day though, just to prevent degredation.

-Cliff
 
When you apply oil to a blade it will bond to the steel, as will just about anything to anything to anything else to some degree due to intermolecular attraction and shape adhesion by intramolecular cohesion.
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Ok, I'm guessing that because you mentioned both adhesion and cohesion, you see them as different processes. What is the difference and which do you think applies to Tuf-Glide?

It seems like intermolecular attraction would be related to some type of force... as in something creating a layer of reduction or oxidization to bond steel with the protectant?

Shape adhesion sounds like the shape of the molecule would fall inbetween molecules of the substrate or whatever term applies to the recepient.

I'm guessing that when the carrier evaporates, a crystalline lattice of some sort is left to cover the blade. When wiping it, maybe the lattice is left in between the furrows of the steel?

I'm also wondering if the carrier in TG (mineral spirits?) acts to displace water. I think it does, like WD-40. Do oil and grease have this characteristic?

One thing I like about TG is that it does act as a dry protectant and much less fuzz and dust are collected on the blade. Of course this benefit is pretty much negated when you use an oil/greased lube in the action like I do.

Still interested in the micrographs...
 
As I have just moved into a new flat, my Tuff Cloth was in a box somewhere...

Well I wanted to protect my D/Thomas double high spiral damascus small sebenza and with no KnifeKnut products to hand I rubbed a little virgin olive oil on the blade :) Works a treat!

Back to topic, Marine Tuff Cloth works great for me, my friend Ed uses the normal model as he says it atracts far less fluff. I have noticed the Marine model leaves quite a thick coating and it does draw the fluff a fair bit.

All in all a product I trust.:D
 
For the amount of protection offered, I don't like handling the chemicals. Sometimes I eat with my knives and mineral spirirts is a pain to wash off my hands. I can smell the stuff on my hands hours later dispite repeat washings. Gloves and degreaer saop seem like too much effort when simple cleaning the knife in water and drying it out produce the same results. With tuf-glide, I stll have rust form. In fact more often, because I don't clean it as well. BUT IF I NEED TO CLEAN IT THE SAME WHAT IS THE POINT OF RUST-PROOFING!

Another point to mention is how does one tell when the caoting has rubbed off? Sometimes I think it rubs off by IWB carry in a few hours!

That said, I am going to coat my blades in a little bit, then take a shower.
 
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