Tulisan knife-fighting - advice please?

A

Alan Peatfield

Joined
Feb 4, 2000
Messages
15
I am based in Ireland where there is very little in the way of Filipino martial arts. So for knife training I am limited to working with written and video sources. Recently I've become interested in the Bakbakan Tulisan knife system. I am training with drills from the video in the Kali Ilustrissimo series, and I have read the article on the Bakbakan website.
Is there anyone out there with experience of the Tulisan system who could give me more advice on how to train?

Further info that might be relevant to any answer:
I am limited to a three-inch blade length due to Irish legal restrictions.
I am left-handed.
My empty hand martial training is in Ba Gua Zhang.

Thanks in advance,

Alan Peatfield
 
Hey there, I train w/ Bakbakan...as for advice w/training Tulisan (taking for granted you are doing Lengua De Fuego, Alas and Guro Rey's striking sequences on the tape)...visualization is PARAMOUNT as you go through your combative striking sequences...imagine intercepting/guiding/evading the enemy's strikes and continuing with your follow through and finishing moves...time your striking sequences, make them as fast/accurate as possible...work on targeting/power with your thrusts and slashes on some kinda dummy or anatomical target (or heavy bag) using your training knife (or failing that, hitting with your trainer--preferably a metal one for this--on a mounted/hanging tire)...get a friend or three and eye protection (Fencing masks work great! Allows slashes & thrusts to the face!)and training knives and SPAR A LOT, HARD--first go with three minute rounds, then shorten the time frame to add pressure...THINK OFFENSE when you are doing Tulisan--we do rather emphasize the thrust, if you analyze Lengua De Fuego. Don't forget your free "live" hand--use it to parry/deflect/check/grab/hit (when sparring, hit with gloves please
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).

Extrapolate striking sequences from Lengua De Fuego--using Guro Rey's movements on the video as a template for further study...Practice quick draws with your carry blade in your street clothes with your main hand and your off hand from every body position (standing, sitting, etc.), practice all of the above with your off hand, practice cutting/thrusting on hanging/fixed targets with your carry knife, practice integrating your empty-hands with the blade...scenario-training might be something you would wish to explore as well, at a later date--ala Tony Blauer's "Panic Attacks" (see www.tonyblauer.com for details, you might find it interesting--this is something I explore personally, and is not standard Bakbakan practice at present).

I would also HIGHLY recommend you contact Bakbakan and explore their Affiliation program...if you wish to train in Bakbakan Kali Illustrisimo/Tulisan Knife Fighting, that might be your best bet, considering where you are...also, perhaps you could sponsor Guro Rey for a seminar at a school in your area, or come to the Gym in Lodi, New Jersey (USA) yourself for a week or so and train with us...
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or you could go to the Gym in Manila!
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I am going to forward this posting to some other Bakbakan members, and hopefully they might respond as well...

Alan, I truly wish you the best of luck with your training! Expect an e-mail sometime...

Karunungan-Katapatan-Katarungan!
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(Knowledge, Loyalty, Justice or Truth)

Mabuhay,

~bayani~ Bakbakan NAHQ

www.bakbakan.com

[This message has been edited by bayani (edited 01-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by bayani (edited 01-18-2001).]
 
Seven Principles of Kali Illustrisimo:

1. Keep calm and relaxed.
2. Know your distance.
3. Use the shortest path for your trajectory.
4. Put the weight of your body behind your strikes.
5. Guide the opponent's force rather than meeting it.
6. Be an honest and good man, free of guilt and clear of mind and conscience.
7. Know when to break the rules.

Karunungan--Katapatan--Katarungan!

~bayani~

[This message has been edited by bayani (edited 01-18-2001).]
 
There´s some Rapid Arnis dudes in Dublin, I think. You might want to check them out. Don´t know about the quality of the style or the instructors, though. There´s a (short
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) thread on FMA in Ireland in the European forum in the Community section.
Wish you best with your training.


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"Peace is not without conflict; it is the ability to cope with conflict" - Leo Giron

[This message has been edited by judge (edited 01-20-2001).]
 
Alan, when sparring/doing thrusting & cutting practice with your trainer--"chain your attacks", that is, don't go "1-stop-2-stop-3-stop, etc.", but rather flow from thrust to slash with the idea that it is one motion--does that make sense? You can do a fluid series of attacks w/o pause with this kind of way of percieving it...also, to keep the pressure on your opponent (while maintaining control of the distance between you) when sparring is paramount (and hard sparring teaches you this)--I always kinda envisioned the Hsing-I Ch'uan fighting mentality to be very similar to Tulisan--but maybe that's just me...

All the best with your training...
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~bayani~

[This message has been edited by bayani (edited 01-20-2001).]
 
Judge:
Thanks for the info' about FMA in Ireland. Both the guys you mention, Dave Joyce in Galway, and Liam McDonald now in Dublin, I know quite well.
Dave's group are fairly successful and have now branched into Muay Thai. They are also associated with the Boston-based kungfu teacher Yang Jwing-ming.
Since his move to Dublin, Liam now concentrates more on Silat, of the William Sanders variety, than on FMA.
Both Dave and Liam are very competent, but neither of them have the concepts or tools that really interest me at this stage, that is why after doing a fair amount of research I have become interested in Tulisan. But thanks anyway.

Bayani:
Thank you again for the useful advice. Your analogy between Tulisan and Hsing-i is interesting. Hsing-i has a very direct, but quite clinical aggressive mind-set. One of my teachers expresses it as: there is no opponent, there is only me. You do your techniques as though the opponent is not there, and in so doing you just blast through them. Alternatively there is the Ba Gua mindset, where there is no me, nor is there any opponent, there is just the event. This allows for greater non-attachment, and thus greater possibility of staying clear in the moment.
If what I understand of Bakbakan's Dikap-Diwa is correct, this seems closer to the Ba Gua idea. An aspiration to seek clarity and presence in the moment, so that you can exercise prakcion. Am I on the right track?

Both Hsing-i and Ba Gua use the notion of continual penetration into the opponent. It is just Hsing-i prefers the front, while Ba Gua prefers the flank - which leads me to my second question.

In the recent article on Kali Ilustrisimo, Mark Wiley mentions the advice to try and flank your opponent by moving around him in 90 degree increments. On the video, the presentation of Alas and Lengua del Fuego is mostly frontal. Should one be also trying to add in this flanking element to the Tulisan drill practice?

Thanks for your time. Reply off-line if you prefer to.

All the best,

Alan

Alan.Peatfield@ucd.ie
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Alan Peatfield:
Your analogy between Tulisan and Hsing-i is interesting. Hsing-i has a very direct, but quite clinical aggressive mind-set. One of my teachers expresses it as: there is no opponent, there is only me. You do your techniques as though the opponent is not there, and in so doing you just blast through them. Alternatively there is the Ba Gua mindset, where there is no me, nor is there any opponent, there is just the event. This allows for greater non-attachment, and thus greater possibility of staying clear in the moment.
If what I understand of Bakbakan's Dikap-Diwa is correct, this seems closer to the Ba Gua idea. An aspiration to seek clarity and presence in the moment, so that you can exercise prakcion. Am I on the right track?

Thanks for your time. Reply off-line if you prefer to.

All the best,

Alan

Alan.Peatfield@ucd.ie</font>
Click to expand...

I hope you both keep it here. You see, this is fascinating to me and probably to many others as well. The whole Post was interesting, not just what I quoted. However, what I did quote was most interesting to me personally.

The concept of where you are as a human being in the conflict is intriguing to say the least. Not just physically but mentally as well.

We often speak of "mindset." Some read Cooper's "Principles of Personal Defense" as a primer for Mindset and some use street experiences and what has personally scared or horrified them in the past to fix in their mind what has to be done. Mine is between both worlds.

The idea of "tuning out" in order to maintain your Mindset is more than a little interesting.

I have a question for those involved, however, if you fight as if you are the only one in the conflict, are you not limiting or negating the responsiveness that makes the FMA so lethal and adaptive to fast-changing situations? By that I mean this, you receive stimuli from an Opponent, if you ignore the stimuli and pressure he is giving you, is that not flirting with disaster in some respects?

Or am I taking things too literally?

 
I don't train in that style, but the way I read it makes me think "the best defense is a good offense". It doesn't matter what the other guy does because I'll have ended it before he has a chance to get going.

That's my take anyway.

Steve
 
Steve's take on the Hsing-i mindset is indeed valid, if simplistic. But Don's questions are also valid.
When I first did Hsing-i I was told a story: student asks master "how do I strike the enemy? Master replies "I don't know how I strike the enemy, I just do my exercise".
My reaction was much the same as yours reading this now - cool story, but what does it mean? Obviously it incoproates the same ideas as "there is no opponent, there is only me" - but how does one understand that?
If one reads as tuning out to an opponent it is indeed potentially disastrous. So what it really refers to the emotional content of aggression, and intent/will. "Not thy will be done, but MINE".
Recognising that the opponent is there and providing stimulus, there are two broad choices of response - blasting through, or yielding and diverting. Hsing-i prefers the former, and say Tai Chi prefers the latter.
Once blasting through is established as preferred strategy, then much of the training is directed to that: whole body force, use of continual penetration, use of cutting angles, wedge principle, simultaneous attack and defence, stealing the opponent's space, etc, etc.
But linked with all this is again the approach to emotional content. I mentioned that Hsing-i has a clinical aggression, it is cold. The problem with using memories and emotions to create a mindset is that they trigger narratives in the mind, and that can cloud or distract the clarity and spontaneity that one needs for responding to an opponent. It can cause gaps in consciousness.
Next time you are talking to someone face-to-face, watch their eyes. You'll notice that their attention will phase in and out - their consciousness is gapping. Then notice that you are doing the same, being distracted by your oown inner dialogue.
Apply that to a martial context. Anybody here been hit by something they didn't see coming? Well, it caught you in a gap. Hsing-i and Ba Gua mindset training is about eliminating those gaps in your consciousness and exploiting those gaps in the opponent. That includes vision training, and meditation training. Of course this is not exclusive to those arts. Once the principles are understood you can apply them to anything. You can apply them as you twirl your sticks. I've been trying to work them into the Tulisan knife drills I've been experimenting with.

I guess I've gone on too long. But I hope it is of interest to somebody.

All the best,

Alan Peatfield
 
Sorry everybody, it's been kinda hectic round my way lately...I am thinking about your answer, Alan...I'll give you something more considered and thoughtful when I can, but, the short answer to one of your questions, which was "are there flanking attacks as well as linear attacks in Bakbakan Tulisan knife?" YES.

Please remember that the way the Bakbakan Kali Illustrisimo curriculum is set up, Tulisan is only one of a series of interdependent parts...Single Sword/Stick, Double Sword/Stick (Sinawali), Espada Y Daga (Sword and Dagger), Pinnga (Dos Manos--Cane or Two-Handed Sword), empty-hands, etc.--each develop attributes and skills that often find themselves expressed when doing Tulisan...for example, there is a kind of flanking footwork I often use when Tulisan sparring that is referred to as "Combate Generale" (spelling?)--basically it is angling to the outside/inside of the opponent at a 45-degree angle, then pivoting on your lead foot, so as to face the enemy...I hope this crude diagram will make sense...

-V-
At the inverted apex of the "V" (the open triangle) one "steps out at the 45", then pivots on the lead foot--hence the dashes...now, one can co-ordinate the stepping and pivoting with, say, an inside slashing parry and thrust to the throat (much like movements 5 and 6 in "Lengua De Fuego")--however, one learns that particular footwork within the context of the Single Sword...that's why I suggested that you explore Bakbakan's Affiliation program, to get a sense of the more complete picture...it will make your Tulisan more effective to practice the other weapons, IMO.

It's nearly a half-an-hour past midnight where I am, and I have had a Veeeery LONG DAY...I'm exhausted and need sleep. I hope this information helped some...as for the other stuff--I'll get to it in the next few days, okay?
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All the best in your training, and be safe and well!

Karunungan--Katapatan--Katarungan!

~bayani~ (God, I HOPE that all made sense! Ugh, off to bed...)
 
Hi Alan-

I'm in Dublin, and it was I who originally placed the post looking for FMA in Ireland in the European Community section.

I think you might have overlooked Pat O'Malley's guys who teach Rapid Arnis in city centre dublin. If you're near Angier street Martial Arts shop, you can find full details of when & where on their front door. They do mostly stick & sport these days (or so I've heard) but O'Malley is pretty famous in the UK for teaching knife defense skills to well-known doormen like Jamie O'Keefe.

There's also a Ving Tsun (their alternative spelling, yes?) group that teaches Latosa Escrima. Details in the Irish Fighter magazine.

Lastly, if you're up north, there's a JKD group that do stickwork in Belfast.
 
Man, no offense, but the words "stickwork in Belfast" is pretty hardcore in and of itself.
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------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
 
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