Tuning an axe to stick MORE?

idroptapul

idroptapul

Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
120
I work trails in wilderness areas where our axes are more commonly called "pounders". They're mostly used for driving wedges behind the crosscut and for sticking into logs as underbucks. I've found that axes with convexed and well-polished edges are pretty hard to stick. Anyone ever tune an axe specifically for getting stuck, say one side of a double bit for chopping and the other for underbucking? What geometry would work best?

Here's a picture of the usual application from a USFS website.
fig50.jpg

...and axe porn from my collection...
training09071.jpg
 
I would think a steep edge would stick better. Also, could look at roughing up that side (not the edge) with a dremel, or maybe intentionally rusting one side to make it stick more. Pine rosin on it for temp use maybe?

Never wanted one to stick, but I can see your need.
 
moosecreektrails said:
Thin it out like like a GB flat no cheeks. I think you would want a thin wedge.
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What moose said. Go Swedish and it'll stick. A good, old American axe with a high centerline is not very "sticky."

Like moose said, why not just use a thin plastic wedge. They are light and pretty cheap.

ETA: I didn't pay enough attention....SORRY! You want it to stick to use as an underbuck brace...my bad..
 
The thinner and flatter you go, the more it will stick.

Instead of a double bit with a chopping side and a grubbing side; you'll have a chopping side and a thin underbucking side. That would be interesting!!
 
M3mphis said:
The thinner and flatter you go, the more it will stick.

Instead of a double bit with a chopping side and a grubbing side; you'll have a chopping side and a thin underbucking side. That would be interesting!!
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Also you cut some groves in the handle for the saw to ride.
 
I have two that way. A 3-1/2 lb Plumb that I filed the cheeks down on, and a 2-1/4 lb Wetterlings that pretty much came that way. I thinned the handles on both to make them springier. I did not de-bevel them completely, as I still chop with them occasionally, but for crosscut use I can chop and underbuck with one side and pound wedges with the poll. I've also used DBs for that purpose, but then still needed another SB for wedge pounding. Wetterlings is pictured below.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/backcountry/8268716212/sizes/h/in/photostream/
 
My underbucking axe is a flat-cheeked 3-pounder with a concave grind. Sticks great. I don't recall if I ground it on the 6" or the 8" grinder but I think it was the 6". It's concave for about 7/16".

It also has a fiberglass handle for extra springyness. With a bendy fiberglass handle you can set the axe higher with a level swing rather than having to use an upswing to set it in the lower half of the log.

If you want to protect your axe handle you can use an under-bucking tool. In this photo it's on a 4 lb. Vaughan not on the usual fiberglass 3-pounder.

Underbuck_001.jpg
 
Oh, and I think an under-bucking axe should be a single bit not a double bit. When you're bucking a log on the trails sometimes stuff happens. You might have to move in a hurry. Having a sharp double bit axe sticking out a log right close to where you're working isn't a good idea. Secondly, and as Trailmaker already noted you need a poll for driving wedges.

The other thing I do when underbucking is start the underbuck cut first, just minimally, then align the top cut to the underbuck. When the top cut begins to pinch I stop and move down under. It's easier to align the top cut to the underbuck than to align the underbuck to the top cut.
 
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Thanks for the suggestions, all.

Trailtime- I almost used some of your great pictures from another forum to illustrate underbucking. Almost also posted my question there as well.
Square-Peg - I have a GB that I think I might try that concave grind on. Good call. I also like your take on the supplementary saw handle.

I've also tried out some of the mechanical underbuckers out there and many work great, but I figure if I can get away with one less piece of gear, I will.
 
idroptapul said:
I also like your take on the supplementary saw handle.
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I needed one quick and didn't have time to order online. 5/8" bolt drilled for a 40d galv. nail shank. I kerfed it with a doubled-up hacksaw blade. In 10 minutes an auxiliary handle from stuff on hand.
 
Just curious, but wouldn't a pickeroon or like tool work for under-bucking?
 
Square_peg said:
Nice saw. What is that, a 42"?
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60". But it's a broken end from a much longer western saw. I just put a D-handle on it for convenience.

I tried filing notches into my handles, but could never get them to line up right with my cuts. Now I just sink the axe and let the back of the saw blade force a groove into the handle. I've been underbucking with the same two axes for almost ten years and still have the original handles. Those notches do add character to your axes.
 
Y'all should chop those nice downed trees not buck 'em with a saw. Just my $0.02. I guess it's part of the difference between east and west.

c3930bca1be711e2b97522000a1d038b_7.jpg


157061d61bde11e299e022000a1fb043_7.jpg
 
That'd probably take a while with this one.

IMG_1466.jpg

That's a good 55" of North Carolina red oak. Fell across a series of stacked switchbacks so we actually had to cut the tree out of the trail twice.
 
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I do a lot of trailwork too so I do get it. It's not appropriate for some blowdowns. I'm not criticizing you at all.
 
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