"Tuning" an EDC

prn · Apr 23, 2001

Hi all,

I mentioned in the Review forum a while ago that I got a new EDC 154CM and I love the design, etc, but it seemed very stiff. Darrel said I should open/close it a lot to break it in and "seat the washers". Figuring that Darrel knows what he's talking about

, I cycled it a couple of hundred times and also flexed the locking bar independently of the opening cycle, since that seemed particularly stiff. After about 600 cycles, it was definitely smoother (not that it was "gritty" or anything like that before) but it was still stiff and the detent that holds it closed was still very solid -- so much so that opening was still difficult and with not much slippage, my thumb could come off the thumb button easier than the detent coming out to open the blade. About this point, I really gave the locking bar a good push to try to loosen it up and that has done its job. Now the knife has become much easier to open and close and unlocking it no longer makes the tip of my thumb sore.

The only problem is that the lockup is no longer quite as impressively solid. The locking bar used to engage the blade tang with about 1/2 of its (the locking bar's) thickness. It now engages to about 1/4 the thickness of the locking bar. I've given it a good number of applications of the spine-whack test including some pretty hard whacks, and it doesn't faze it at all. The lock is still quite strong, it seems. OTOH, where there used to be no wobble at all in the locked blade, now there is a tiny bit of wobble. I can feel it when I gently open the blade and then hold the handle in one hand and wiggle the blade with the other. It isn't much, but it's there. When I hold the handle as still as I can and put the tip in front of a ruler and do the same thing, I really still can't see perceptible movement in the tip of the blade, which means that I'm talking about a very small wobble at the tang end, but I can feel it. If I squeeze the locking bar in further so that it's engaged to 1/2 of its thickness, like it was before, then there's no wobble at all, but it's again very hard to disengage the lock.

OK. Sorry for the longish, detailed description, but now I'm thinking that I really ought to readjust the knife a little bit and I'm fishing for advice on how to do it. Is the pivot at all adjustable? Can I get about a .001" extra so that the locking bar will engage a bit further? I'm thinking of taking the whole thing apart, polishing the bearing surfaces of the pivot and the detent, perhaps bending the locking bar a bit inward again to add a little force, and then trying to reassemble the whole thing with about .001 or .002" of additional clearance so that the lock can engage just a little further without need for quite so much force.

Now comes the real question. What kind of gotchas am I likely to run into? Are the hex screws for the stop pin and the butt-end pin loctited? Those do look more like hex screws than torx. It looks like I'd need to remove the clip (and I am already aware that the clip screws are loctited). I might consider first just loosening and trying to adjust the pivot without disassembing the whole knife if that might work. However, although the action is not "gritty" or anything, it's really not what I'd call "slick" either, so polishing seems worth thinking about too, if it could bring the action up to a "slick" level.

I do want to make it clear that I'm not complaining. The knife is smooth enough for a factory knife and it is (or at least was, before I went messing around with it) extremely solid. And, of course, it is a truly elegant design.

So what do you say? Is this something where I can "tune it up" just the little bit that it would take to make it absolutely perfect? Or am I likely to screw it up instead?

Paul

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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
A tool is, basically, an object that enables you to take advantage of the laws of physics and mechanics in such a way that you can seriously injure yourself.

Bladeandbarrel · Apr 23, 2001

The reason your knife was "stiff" is because the detent on the EDC's actually work, unlike most factory frame/liner locks.

I would have suggested leaving the lock tension alone and slightly polishing the ball detent.

It sounds like you open your knife way too much, you flickaholic.

Darrel Ralph · Apr 23, 2001

Paul
Set the lock at about 1/3 engagement like you like it to open. Then tighten the pivot screw until ther is no blade wobble . This should do it. OIL!
Open and close until its smooth.

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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
MADD MAXX !

Shodar · Apr 24, 2001

This may be a dumb question. I have received 3 of the 5 EDCs I ordered. Regarding the lockup, the extent to which the lock engages the end of the blade for these knives is approximately 60%, 90% and 105% respectively. The question: what is the ideal amount the lock should engage the blade end?

-Rick

prn · Apr 24, 2001

Anthony Lombardo said:

The reason your knife was "stiff" is because the detent on the EDC's actually work, unlike most factory frame/liner locks.

Anthony, I always thought I was the Master of Understatement (at least that's what my wife says

). That detent certainly does work!

I would have suggested leaving the lock tension alone and slightly polishing the ball detent.

That seems like one of the effects of all the opening and closing. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to be sufficient for relieving stiffness. The tension from the locking bar pressing (fairly hard) on the tang really did make it quite stiff.

It sounds like you open your knife way too much, you flickaholic.

Well, Darrel did say to open and close it a lot. Do I get to blame him for my flickaholism?

Seriously, so that I could keep track of what I was doing, I did sets of 50 two-handed openings -- to the point where the ball fell off the tang but the lock didn't fully engage. That way, I could do 50 of them in a couple of minutes and still know roughly how much I was opening it. Then I would work the locking bar back and forth a bit and do a few "regular" openings to evaluate the effort involved.

Darrel said:

Set the lock at about 1/3 engagement like you like it to open. Then tighten the pivot screw until ther is no blade wobble . This should do it. OIL!

Sounds good. Let's see if I understand it as well as you said it.

I loosen the pivot screw a smidgeon (or maybe even a smidgeon and a half). I wiggle the blade enough to set the locking bar to where I want it: so that it engages to about 1/3 or 1/2 of its thickness. Then I retighten the pivot screw to eliminate wobble.

Is that more or less the procedure you had in mind?

What kind of oil do you recommend? Anything in particular? Some kind of Teflon lube like White Lightning?

Open and close until its smooth.

I suppose I can be persuaded to flick it some more.

Thanks, Darrel. I'm sure you don't let your handmades out the door until they're very well tuned, but this is a pretty nice knife anyway and when I get done picking your brain and tuning it up to the extent I can, it'll be even nicer, even if it isn't one of your handmade babies.

Paul

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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
A tool is, basically, an object that enables you to take advantage of the laws of physics and mechanics in such a way that you can seriously injure yourself.

Darrel Ralph · Apr 24, 2001

Its kind of hard this way but there is a point that it work for you . I prefer them tight. I like the lock to lock and stay locked.

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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
MADD MAXX !

prn · Apr 24, 2001

Uh, sorry Darrel. I don't follow that. Could you elaborate a little?

Did you mean that my interpretation of your advice is doing things the hard way? (If so, is there an easier or better way?) Is this, in fact, the proper way to readjust the wobble out of the lock or should I do it differently? Or that you prefer the locking action to be stiff (hard)? Or something else?

Thanks.
Paul

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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
A tool is, basically, an object that enables you to take advantage of the laws of physics and mechanics in such a way that you can seriously injure yourself.

Darrel Ralph · Apr 24, 2001

NO NOT AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What im saying is there is a right tension for YOUR lock . You have to be satified with it . Frame locks are a little different than a liner lock. So tinker with it until its the way you like it.

I just mentioned I like mine set stiff.
It wont fail me that way and I feel secure about the lock. Its just my opinion!

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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
MADD MAXX !

avpshadowman · Apr 25, 2001

I have received 3 of the 5 EDCs I ordered.

5 EDCS! ?? ?!

getting a little greedy eh ?

hehehe

Daniel

Darrel Ralph · Apr 25, 2001

Goodness I dont have but two!
:::::::::::::::::

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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
MADD MAXX !

Shodar · Apr 25, 2001

Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed works.

3 go to family, and who cares if they don't know, at least initially, what they're getting?

-Rick

prn · Apr 25, 2001

Darrel sez:

What im saying is there is a right tension for YOUR lock. You have to be satified with it . Frame locks are a little different than a liner lock. So tinker with it until its the way you like it.

Sounds like my philosophy. To each his own. Make it suit yourself rather than some abstract idea. I can live with that. It isn't quite the way I like it yet, so I'll keep tinkering.

My current plan, having tried just loosening the pivot screw, wiggling the blade and retightening (which had no useful effect

), is that I'll remove the pivot screw, slip the blade out, polish the tang, bend the locking bar back inward a little (which is kind of restricted when the blade is in place) and then slide the blade back in between the frame members (along with the washers). I'll see how well that plan works. AFAICT, the pivot screw requires a 6/64" hex key. The stop pin and the spacer pin at the other end each seem to require two of some other size hex key that I have not yet determined

and don't seem to own, so I'll see if I can get the blade out and back in again just by removing the pivot screw. (fingers crossed!)

I'll let you all know how this plan works.

Paul

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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
A tool is, basically, an object that enables you to take advantage of the laws of physics and mechanics in such a way that you can seriously injure yourself.

Will Fennell · Apr 25, 2001

Paul,
Before you get too crazy,

,lets talk. Send me an email with your phone # and I'll give you a call. I really don't think you need to polish the tang area of the knife, as you could alter the geometry of the lock surface. I think we can get to the bottom of this faster over the phone, so if youwill send me your #, I'll call you on my nickel.

I look forward to talking to you,

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Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com

prn · Apr 27, 2001

Latest (and maybe even last

) update. Last night I removed the pivot screw and pushed out the "nut" (the pivot pin) that it screws into. I then just displaced the blade enough to squeeze the locking bar arm fairly well toward the inside to tighten it up a little. Then I slid the blade back into place so that I could replace the pivot pin and screw. The result? Now the lockup is tight enough to eliminate the tiny wobble I had created and the locking arm is still not so tight that it makes the blade really stiff. I'm happy.

Just to explain why I was unhappy at first, I suspect few had really understood just how stiff the blade and the locking mechanism were. When I first got this knife, the detent holding it closed was such that I had to press on it with a force that seemed somewhere between lifting one and two (full) 12 oz cans of Coke with the tip of my thumb. After the detent was released, moving the blade the rest of the way was almost like lifting one can with my thumb tip. (I didn't think then of trying to hang a can of Coke from the half-open blade to test the actual force.

) Releasing the lock was like pushing up on at least 3 full cans (the ridge on the edge) with the tip of the thumb. That seemed excessive to me and now releasing either the detent or the lock is approximately one can's worth of force and swinging the blade requires much less force than lifting a can of Coke. Six folded sheets of letter-size copier paper hung on the half-open blade will now push it down far enough to make them slide off. That seems OK to me.

So I'm now happy.

It's a neat knife and a bargain. I know I could have sent Darrel $500 and have received a perfect knife a couple of months later, depending on his current load, but for $65 and a little bit of tuning, I have a genuine D. Ralph Design now.

Thanks Will and Darrel. You guys have been incredibly patient dealing with my persistent questions and quibbling.

Paul

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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
A tool is, basically, an object that enables you to take advantage of the laws of physics and mechanics in such a way that you can seriously injure yourself.