Two edges of BK15

N

njr

Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
82
Hi

New Ka-bar owner. My question relates to martial application of BK15.

By way of background, I've trained in Martial Blade Concepts and some Filipino Martial Arts - more basic level.

In MBC the wharncliffe profile is emphasized for its ability to shear while "defanging the snake".

In small sabre/bowie a blade with belly is emphasized- I'm not as familiar with the reasoning there- because the blade is longer the belly gives the blade weight to chop, and to use for chores. .....?

The BK15 looks somewhat like a Japanese style tanto. The tanto ranged from eight to 13 inches and I'm guessing at this length a blade with a belly would start to be more effective for cutting/chopping.

However the BK15 is 5.5 inches so it's really shorter than a tanto or even the GI Ka-bar.

So my question is: is the BK15 better used to "defang the snake" using the swedge/wharncliffe profile or is there something I'm missing with regards to the primary edge?

Also I assume sharpening the swedge would aid the thrust as well as knife retention etc.

When I try to hold the knife with the swedge forward however the grip is a little strange because of the layout of the handle.

Thanks for any help.

Alex

Thanks.
 
What do you mean by defining the snake? If I took the system I might understand but relative terms are easier to picture.
 
Yeah, I took some Arnis from Remy Presas back in the day. This question is less of a knife question and more of a fighting style question. Depends on application. You should really direct it to your instructor. Even if we had an Arnis master on the forum (maybe we do, I don't know), defanging refers to such a broad category of techniques, it would still be hard to answer.
 
JWheel said:
Yeah, I took some Arnis from Remy Presas back in the day. This question is less of a knife question and more of a fighting style question. Depends on application. You should really direct it to your instructor. Even if we had an Arnis master on the forum (maybe we do, I don't know), defanging refers to such a broad category of techniques, it would still be hard to answer.
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Nice. I studied a bit with Nate Defensor. Apparently his father taught Guro Presas.

I will be asking my instructor but since this is the Becker forum I was hoping that Mr Becker or his acolytes might also share their thoughts.

Thanks.
 
njr said:
Nice. I studied a bit with Nate Defensor. Apparently his father taught Guro Presas.

I will be asking my instructor but since this is the Becker forum I was hoping that Mr Becker or his acolytes might also share their thoughts.

Thanks.
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I could be wrong, but I don't think there is a lot of knife fighting around here. I don't expect a lot of these folks to know your terms. But really, if your concern is using a knife to slice the weapon hand of an attacker, any of the lightweight ones will succeed at that. The difference between tantos and knives with bellies, etc. are unlikely to make much substantive difference. Sharp edge plus accurate contact is going to yield pretty similar results.

But for the record, I do not recommend knives for self-defense to anyone ever. I'm answering here academically.

Having lived in South Central, I'm pretty familiar with muggings and assaults. None of those attackers carried weapons that they had to swing. In those cases, I suggest carrying cash in a money clip and investing in good running shoes. Or a Glock if you don't mind pulling on a gun already in your face.
 
JWheel said:
I could be wrong, but I don't think there is a lot of knife fighting around here. I don't expect a lot of these folks to know your terms. But really, if your concern is using a knife to slice the weapon hand of an attacker, any of the lightweight ones will succeed at that. The difference between tantos and knives with bellies, etc. are unlikely to make much substantive difference. Sharp edge plus accurate contact is going to yield pretty similar results.

But for the record, I do not recommend knives for self-defense to anyone ever. I'm answering here academically.

Having lived in South Central, I'm pretty familiar with muggings and assaults. None of those attackers carried weapons that they had to swing. In those cases, I suggest carrying cash in a money clip and investing in good running shoes. Or a Glock if you don't mind pulling on a gun already in your face.
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Thanks for your opinion but I'd like to hear more on the specifics of the BK15.
 
The edge geometry optimises slicing and its sturdy enough to stab. It's really comfortable in any of the four fencing grips. balance point is a finger under the top hex bolt. I've sliced (pig) flesh and bone, and the edge is amazing. As far as a fighting knife it will do the job, but if that is all you plan on using it for you are missing out on what it can really do ;)
 
TBL said:
The edge geometry optimises slicing and its sturdy enough to stab. It's really comfortable in any of the four fencing grips. balance point is a finger under the top hex bolt. I've sliced (pig) flesh and bone, and the edge is amazing. As far as a fighting knife it will do the job, but if that is all you plan on using it for you are missing out on what it can really do ;)
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Great thanks that's very informative. Is there a link explaining the edge geometry?
 
Your best bet is to search youtube for "Jerry Fisk Edge Geometry". There are many videos in which he explains how he designs his blades. :thumbup:
 
Welcome!

And congrats on the acquiring the BK15. You should also check out it's big brother, the BK5! It's currently on clearance sale too, about $60~$65.

Ethan has commented that martial artists' eyes light up when they see the 5 and 15.

And, if you watch Kung Fu movies, especially on the EL REY cable network, you'll notice how a lot of those movie knives look just like the 5 and 15. ;)
 
This question would be better suited to Practical Tactical. BK&T is mainly outdoors enthusiasts who love Beckers.
 
Thanks.

Yeah, I do plan to use it for more than just self defense (in the forest, doing cardio, as a backup to the gun). Unfortunately I live in Chicago/Cook County and there's too much butthurt about actually carrying the blade, so that kinda limits me. I will probably use it in the kitchen and practice with it on a pell for starters. I don't go camping that often anymore.
 
average gimp said:
BK&T is mainly outdoors enthusiasts who love Beckers.
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True this is and, in the vein, the 5 and 15 are truly versatile knives. They are Fisk designed slicers and probably have tactical applications but they surely serve my outdoorsman purposes very well. They are two knives that punch above their weight, IMO.
 
Nice. I looked at the 5 but I own a Cold Steel Laredo and with my height at just under 5' 8" those two are just too big for me to carry concealed.
 
The Bk15 is a trailing point knife, which as you say looks somewhat like a true japanese tanto. However, as far as I know, the knife was not designed as a fighting knife, so the trailing point design is for other purposes (as far as I know anyway, I could be totally wrong on that).

Trailing point knives have more belly per inch of blade length than most other blades. This increase in the amount of belly helps with slicing motions and tasks, effectively letting it cut slices like it was a longer knife with a lower point. The trailing point design also makes it more comfortable to do draw cuts, as the handle is raised when slicing because the belly is so much longer (think using it on a cutting board, vs using a wharncliff for the same task, the longer belly on the BK15 makes it easier to use). So typically you'll see knives with large continuous bellies being used more for food prep (look at a chefs knife, its almost all belly). Most knives still have bellies of course, just saying that larger bellies typically help with better slicing abilities. They can at times also be enlarged to give more mass over certain parts of the blade, as you said, for chopping (usually only on larger knives though, as smaller knives don't have the tip speed or mass to chop well at all).

The swedge on this design wasn't really intended to be sharpened (although it totally could be). Mr Fisk (who designed it) said that the swedge is there to help when cutting through material as deep (or deeper than) the chord of the blade. The swedge gives the blade a more "teardrop" profile, so cutting through deep media/material occurs with less friction (by reducing the angle of edges that would catch things on the spine). This is most noticeable when cutting things like thick cardboard, rope, or even meats.

So yeah, no idea on any of the martial applications of the knife, as I've got no training (or real interest) in those uses. But I figured I'd share what I knew.

For more information on the fighting stuff, I'd really ask in the practical tactical forum, as those guys would be much more likely to know.

Good luck, and congrats on the new steel :).
 
Both the BK5 and BK15 are certainly the slice-iest design in the line up. They also seem to me to be the "fastest" due to the relatively light weight compared to blade size (James Terrio has mentioned this and can probably explain better than I can.)

As far as sharpening the swedge, you'd best check local and state laws before doing that. For some bizarre reason, here it Texas it is considered a "dagger" if the swedge is sharpened (at least by some LEOs) and is therefore prohibited (for now). There was a statute worked on, but not passed, this last legislature session that would have eliminated "prohibited knives" and just spelled out "prohibited locations" (i.e. schools, court rooms, etc.). At least the knife law preemption passed so that some really stupid local laws are no longer valid.
 
Yeah thanks guys that was informative.

I've been in the kitchen since I was a kid so the blade profile definitely appealed to me. Also loved that Mr Becker's grandma authored The Joy of Cooking.

I did read one soldier reviewing the blade and he said that he sharpened the swedge. When I did retention drills in Russian Martial Arts the usefulness of a double edge was readily apparent.

In Illinois outside of Chicago and some towns generally around Chicago the law only criminalizes using a knife with intent. Length, type etc is not regulated.
 
I did post my query on practical tactical but do far no response. Perhaps not ninja enough?

I do remember the PR/reviews around the line talking about dual use, woodscraft and martial.
 
As said, the Beckers are all designed much more for camp/utility purposes rather than pure fighting. There's a video somewhere of Ethan Becker and Jerry Fisk discussing their design of the 5 and 15... among other things, they agreed that in camp, if one person has a BK-9 for heavy chopping/cutting, and another person has a BK-5 for slashing and food prep and other less brutal tasks, they'll have all the chores covered quite nicely. :thumbup: A member here recently did nearly every task around the farm/bumming in the woods he could think of, except for really heavy chopping, with a BK-15 for a matter of weeks, and it served him very well.

If I were to choose a Becker for self-defense it would definitely be a 5 or 15, depending mostly on what I was wearing and whether or not I cared about concealing them. At that point (ho ho) you may as well go ahead and sharpen at least the first 2-3 inches of the swedge; the slightly convex shape and relatively thin cross-section makes them both wicked in the back cut or for poking things that are trying to poke you.

GSO1962 said:
Both the BK5 and BK15 are certainly the slice-iest design in the line up. They also seem to me to be the "fastest" due to the relatively light weight compared to blade size (James Terrio has mentioned this and can probably explain better than I can.)
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There's not much to explain :) Length of blade relates directly to tip speed, and light overall weight plus balance right about on your index finger or a little further forward equals overall speed. Both knives seem to almost "float" in your hand, which is precisely what I prefer in that sort of design.
 
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