Two swords from the Hermitage collection

[Gollnick]

Here are two swords that I dound somewhat interesting on my recent visit to the Hermitage in St. Petersberg, Russia. Both are dated 1575AD. You have to pardon the pictures. The light wasn't great and I was photographing through thick glass display cases.

These are both interesting because they have something extra sort of going on near the hilt.

These are both combination sword/pistols. While swords aren't really my thing, I was especially interested to see that combination in pieces which are upwards of 500 years old. So, I thought I'd share them with you.

 

[Triton]

Thanks Gollnick! If you don't mind I'm going to spread these around to another forum I visit... I've never seen a sword/pistol in this combination, that is a rapier/gun format. Mostly you see them on hunting hangers. I wonder if they were just show pieces or what. I also found the enameled cinquedas that you posted to be rather interesting as I've never seen them with that sort of decoration before.

Russ

 

[Triton]

Oh I meant to say that you did a fine job with the pictures, taking pictures through display cases is very difficult. Also was there other arms and armor there and did you take more pictures?

 

[Gollnick]

Thanks Gollnick! If you don't mind I'm going to spread these around to another forum I visit...

Sure, please do.

I've never seen a sword/pistol in this combination, that is a rapier/gun format. Mostly you see them on hunting hangers.

It's hard to see clearly in these pictures, but the first one actually has an undulating blade very much like an Indonesian or Filipino Kris but very narrow. It's an amazing blade. And remember, this is in 1575.

I wonder if they were just show pieces or what.

These were obviously not made for the common foot soldier. These were for the upper-crust. But, my impression is that they were intended for actual use.

Notice, also, how cleverly the gun mechanism is disguised into the sword in both cases. From only a short distance away, you wouldn't see it. These were intended very much as a concealed weapon to surprise an opponent.

 

[Gollnick]

Oh I meant to say that you did a fine job with the pictures, taking pictures through display cases is very difficult.

Thank you. Yes, it was a difficult situation to get photographs in.

Also was there other arms and armor there and did you take more pictures?

Yes, and at the Kremlin too. I'll post some more eventually.

 

[Gollnick]

BTW, there is a book to be published next spring which will be a catalog of swords and knives in the Hermitage collection. While the text will be in Russian, the pictures will doubtlessly be elegant making this a very good book for sword and knife collectors.

 

[Triton]

Well rapiers along those lines were definitely the perogative of the nobility, your average foot soldier would have had a suitably more business like weapon.

I'm at a bit of a loss though, I doubt they were intended as dueling weapons as shooting your opponent in a swordfight would doubtless have been seen as murder. I also wonder how the pistol would have affected the balance etc. of the pieces.

They could have been sort of the weapon for the man about town when confronting a gang of street thugs such a thing might have been handy although the very ornateness of it might have attracted said thugs in the first place. I'm wondering if they were sort of male jewelry something to be ooohed and ahhed over at court.

The flamberge blade although not unknown is rather uncommon and usually only shows up on very expensive swords.

I'm looking forward to what ever other photos you have.

 

[Gollnick]

Hopefully, someone else here who is more knowledgable about swords and especially pieces from this era can address these questions. As I said, this is a bit out of my area.

But, I found these two especially interesting and thought I'd share them with y'all here.

 

[Will P.]

Hmmm. My guess is that they were for hunting. But I don't no nothing 'bout swords.

 

[bithabus]

Swordguns like those pictured were not really meant for use. Most likely they would be worn as "hunting swords", which means that a noble would wear it as a cool looking accesory as their dogs and servants hunted for them.

 

[Triton]

Normally I would agree with you, as most of these gun sword combinations are on a hunting hanger, have etched scenes of the chase etc. However these particular swords look to be rapier or at least cut and thrust swords not the thing you would expect to see on the hip of someone out sporting in the field but rather something you would expect to see on the street.

 

[bithabus]

The first sword has a flamberge, the second seems to have elaborate gold scrollwork on the pommel. These things would have been very expensive, and I doubt they would work well as either swords or guns. But, who knows?

 

[Triton]

The first sword has a flamberge, the second seems to have elaborate gold scrollwork on the pommel. These things would have been very expensive, and I doubt they would work well as either swords or guns. But, who knows?

I agree I suspect that they fall into the same category as the Rambo death daggers or whatever of today. People had them for the "gee whiz" factor...

 

[Gwinnydapooh]

Actually, both cut-and-thrust and rapiers were used for a lot more than dueling. More common than formal duels in that era were robberies and brawls by street thugs using such weapons.

 

[bithabus]

Actually, both cut-and-thrust and rapiers were used for a lot more than dueling. More common than formal duels in that era were robberies and brawls by street thugs using such weapons.

We were referring to these two weapons pictured, specifically. I doubt these were used by "street thugs".