Two vertical forge questions

P

Protactical

Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
717
Has anyone made a successful vertical forge using a Hybrid burner, say a T-Rex, or a Shorty. Seems as though most of the ones I see have a blower with them.

Also, most of the vertical posts I have looked back at, are for really monster verticals. 16" diameter and so forth. has anyone made a freon size one? Riverside has one (knifemakingsupplies.com) that is a mere 8". I'd like a small vertical, with a hybrid burner.
 
My burner (based on the Reil and other burners) was set up for a blower but have not found it needing one!

forge4.jpg
 
I think the biggest reason you always see blowers on verticals, is because verticals are very easy to control, and a blower just adds to the control factor.

I have a big vertical, but I'm going to build a new one, and while I'm at it, I think I will build a small one (like 8"). As the big one is overkill for forging hunters and such.

I'm sure with a small vertical you could get enough heat with that type of burner, as long as you have a high quality liner/refractory (my choice being 2" of Kao-wool coated with ITC-100). But for very little $$$ you can buy a small blower from Surplus Center and dial in your control.

Nick
 
Bruz, do you have a vertical forge also, or are you comenting relative to your horizontal? I realize there are horizontals with no blower, but I just haven't triped over a vertical like that yet.

Nick, these Hybrids are reputed to go from candle flame to all out nuclear, with superb control and no blower. No reason why it shouldn't work in a vertical, unless it got burned up, or the back pressure was weird. i just wondered what the experience was.
 
Yes Protactical, I'm referring to my horizontal, but it has a large area to heat and even at the lowest pressure it still kicks out the heat. I borrowed my wifes hair dryer and did not notice any increased performance?

And yes Nick, mine is very well insulated...
 
Protactical,

I started off with a small horizontal forge and a Riel EZ burner. It worked, sort of, for a while. Later, I was given an 8" dia. vertical that is the bottom 1/3 of a large oxygen cylinder. Since my tool budget is very limited right now, I just put the EZ burner into the vertical and used some Kaowool around the "flare" to help seal it in. I don't do any welding in this forge, but it gets up to forging temp in about 10 minutes and when forging my reheats take about 2-3 minutes. All of this at around 5psi on the propane. :)

Some day I'll probably get a blower and really get this thing cooking. Until then, the venturi style burner will keep me happily pounding on hot steel.

Oh yeah, I just remembered that Ray Richard recently put together a new freon-tank vertical and he is using a ventri style burner as well. If you look through some of his posts from about six months ago, I think I remember seeing on either this forum or over at CKD.

Hope this helps.
- Mike :D
 
I got two of those little Dayton 15 cfm blowers, NIB and just great. I am thinking of getting two more for eventual projects like salt pots.

On the Kaowool, I have 1" in an old oxygen cylinder--essentially just built the model on Don Fogg's site--and notice the shell gets very, very hot. Do you think 2" of Kaowool would do the trick here?

John

p.s. It is not only that I don't want to be burned by my forge shell, it is also the knowledge that I am spending alot of propane to heat the wrong metal :(
 
If you go by the conventional wisdom, some ITC 100 over the Koawool would make a huge difference. About 50% more heat required, where it isn't used. Also tacks down the fibers so you don't breath them. It's all theory for me at this stage.
 
Here's the last little vertical forge I made and it is heated with the simplest ventura burner there is. I have gone in reverse with this forge. I had started larger and gone smaller each time I made a new forge but have stuck with this size and like it the most for the forging I do. The blade in the photo is over 13" long not counting the tang. I can heat up about 7" at a time with this forge. Thing I like best with this type forge is I can run the point of the knife out the back when I'm working on the back half of the blade. I did a forging demo with a horizontal forge that worked great but when it came time for me to forge the tang I kept over heating the blade since there was no back door. Every time I make a new forge I try to make improvement. On this one both front and back openings are sleved. It really cuts down on the wear and tear. All the clutter is just stagging for this photo. Right, Mike.....
PDRM0444.JPG
 
Ray,

Yeah, staging, that's it. Wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea by showing an absolutely clean workspace. ;)

Practical: I enjoyed using Ray's larger forge and I'm sure that the one he's got shown here is even better. One thing to remember with the blower setup, if you loose power to the blower, you've got a BIG fire hazard on your hands in a hurry as the burning propane won't be forced into the forge any longer. It will start looking for the path of least resistance and that could be back through the blower.

It's a good idea to put a "normally off" valve in the propane line so that if power is lost, both the blower AND propane will shut off before things get really exciting.:eek:

Cheers,

- Mike
 
Originally posted by Protactical
If you go by the conventional wisdom, some ITC 100 over the Koawool would make a huge difference. About 50% more heat required, where it isn't used. Also tacks down the fibers so you don't breath them. It's all theory for me at this stage.
Click to expand...


The ITC-100 definitely increases efficiency, but instead of coating the fibers directly with ITC-100, a cheaper way to do it is to coat the fibers with a thick coat of Satanite (very inexpensive) and then paint a thin coat of ITC-100 over top of the cured Satanite. You're now not using the ITC for mechanical protection, the Satanite serves that purpose, but rather only using a thin coat of the ITC for its refractory properties. Hope this helps! :)

-Darren
 
Losing electrical power to a blown forge is a valid safety concern. By a "normally off" valve, I am assuming you mean a solenoid valve of some sort. On the other hand, however, propane is potentially dangerous no matter what set-up you use and I would never leave any forge--venturi or blown--unattended. That said, if the power goes out, the gas is shut off, immediately. Couldn't be much simpler.

John
 
I built a 14" vertical that rocks. I used a Rupert Wenig designed venturi and it does just fine. Control is the big plus of a blower.

I, like Nick, will build a smaller forge in the 8" range for smaller work.

Brett

picture.JPG
 
Hey guys, I've got to ask, as this is a question that's been nagging at me for some time now.... given the low cost and availability of surplus blowers as well as the greater control and fuel efficiency of a forced air burner, what are the advantage of making a venturi type burner. I know there's something I'm probably missing here, but I just don't see it...somebody please clear me up!:confused:

:)

-Darren
 
Simplicity is pretty much it. One less thing to deal with and alot more moble. With my little forge I can set up anywhere and no need for electricty....
 
Darren,

look over the Hybridburners.com, and see if you come away believing the blower will make the burner either more controlable, or more fuel efficient. I sure don't know one way or the other, but when i find two groups claiming equaly spectacular results, where one also has a simpler solution...

Buying one of the burners is presumably a little more expensive than making your own, but overall, it's a lot cheaper than almost anything else associated with this hobby, and it's the one thing where the engineering might make a real difference.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top