Two William Mann double bit axes + 125 years + 4.75 pounds

[Brent Halverson]

Yes, two William Mann double-bit axes. One found several years or more ago and forgot about until today, the other bought a few days ago.

In a past thread guru Steve Tall said that the William Mann marked axes were not in product lists for 1913, the Mann plant in Lewistown popped up in about 1892, Cast Steel was popular after the Civil War and faded away during the Great Depression. So those are the clues I went with when looking at and roughly dating this axe head marked "William Mann, Lewistown, Superior Cast Steel.

This axe was was owned by an old-timer when I saw it off to the side at a yard sale and he did not want to let go of it about three months ago for cash, but he said he would trade me for something and a few days ago I found something I had laying around the house, drove over and he traded. In poking around the internet, even on specialty forums, sadly I saw a few instances where geniuses with axes marked like this one talked about how they had an original axe made by William Mann himself from the early 1800s, and even more sadly lots of people believed them.

Axe is not much larger than the common and average 3.5 pound post-WWII double-bit, but because it's cross-section is made of true wedges instead of being "wrapped" around the eye or featuring "phantom" or any bevels, it is heavy. Looking at it made me wonder if the shape of later axe heads was implemented partly to cut the amount of steel needed to make the axe head and stuff more pennies into the pockets of the owners and shareholders.

And here is William Mann number-2;

 

[crbnSteeladdict]

In a past thread guru Steve Tall said that the William Mann marked axes were not in product lists for 1913, the Mann plant in Lewistown popped up in about 1892, Cast Steel was popular after the Civil War and faded away during the Great Depression. So those are the clues I went with when looking at and roughly dating this axe head marked "William Mann, Lewistown, Superior Cast Steel.

This axe was was owned by an old-timer when I saw it off to the side at a yard sale and he did not want to let go of it about three months ago for cash, but he said he would trade me for something and a few days ago I found something I had laying around the house, drove over and he traded. In poking around the internet, even on specialty forums, sadly I saw a few instances where geniuses with axes marked like this one talked about how they had an original axe made by William Mann himself from the early 1800s, and even more sadly lots of people believed them.

Axe is not much larger than the common and average 3.5 pound post-WWII double-bit, but because it's cross-section is made of true wedges instead of being "wrapped" around the eye or featuring "phantom" or any bevels, it is heavy. Looking at it made me wonder if the shape of later axe heads was implemented partly to cut the amount of steel needed to make the axe head and stuff more pennies into the pockets of the owners and shareholders.

Most likely pre-AA&TCo

Post in thread 'Four Mann Men and a couple of patents'

Oct 8, 2017

Does it look like more than 1/8"?

It most certainly does! But the purpose of the patent is to show the buyer how much steel is in an inserted bit. What he is saying is that fig. 3 is an example of a bit with a small amount of steel. He is not saying that ALL inserted bits are that way. Comparing figs 3 to 4 is apples and oranges when it comes to overlaid vs inserted.



"For example, the body of the ax may be made of low grade steel and the bit of high-grade steel, the latter adapted to receive the...

• rjdankert

• 

 

[Hickory n steel]

There is a reason the pre 50's 20th century axes were made the way they were, it was the heyday of the American logging industry and north American axes reached their technological peak in the 30's.

That being said there is definitely something nice about the profile of earlier axes, and you certainly have quite a nice example.

 

[Brent Halverson]

Most likely pre-AA&TCo

Your own quoted source, Mann Axe Dynasty, and others says the Lewistown plant was started after the brothers left AA&T. This axe is marked "Lewistown".

"Cast Steel" was at one time something to brag about in marketing, but after WWI with more modern steels and manufacturing methods it began to look dated and it's use started to wane. I have a lot of old Maydole hammers from before WWII, and some of them surely from around WWI or before, and Maydole which once marked all of it's hammers "cast steel" dropped it at one point.

As far as inserted or overlay bits go, it backs up my comment about axe manufacturers doing whatever they can to maximize profits, as soon as anyone could they surely went to the overlay. I don't think you can always tell overlay from inserted from the side of an axe head, you would have to find it on the top or bottom, which I was not able to do with this axe yet, and I don't know if I will clean it up any more, or enough to be able to see that detail. I did drag a file over the edge of this axe and it is quite hard, somehow over the years this axe evaded much use and the klutzy and/or overzealous sharpening a lot of edged tools are victims of.

 

[crbnSteeladdict]

Your own quoted source, Mann Axe Dynasty, and others says the Lewistown plant was started after the brothers left AA&T. This axe is marked "Lewistown".

"Cast Steel" was at one time something to brag about in marketing, but after WWI with more modern steels and manufacturing methods it began to look dated and it's use started to wane. I have a lot of old Maydole hammers from before WWII, and some of them surely from around WWI or before, and Maydole which once marked all of it's hammers "cast steel" dropped it at one point.

As far as inserted or overlay bits go, it backs up my comment about axe manufacturers doing whatever they can to maximize profits, as soon as anyone could they surely went to the overlay. I don't think you can always tell overlay from inserted from the side of an axe head, you would have to find it on the top or bottom, which I was not able to do with this axe yet, and I don't know if I will clean it up any more, or enough to be able to see that detail. I did drag a file over the edge of this axe and it is quite hard, somehow over the years this axe evaded much use and the klutzy and/or overzealous sharpening a lot of edged tools are victims of.

The moment members of Mann clan joined AA&TCo, names of their companies became more of brands than actual names of manufacturing entities. William Mann Jr used Lewistown on their axes before joining AA&TCo. Around 1892 Lewistown plant was sold to METCo. However METCo did not have right to use William Mann or Robert Mann names. The rights evenutally transfered to Kelly when it merged with bankrupted AA&TCo.

 

[Brent Halverson]

The moment members of Mann clan joined AA&TCo, names of their companies became more of brands than actual names of manufacturing entities. William Mann Jr used both Lewistown and Bellefonte locations on their axes before joining AA&TCo. Around 1892 Lewistown plant was sold to METCo. However METCo did not have right to use William Mann or Robert Mann names. The rights evenutally transfered to Kelly when it merged with bankrupted AA&TCo.

Well I guess you have to make up your mind what you are saying, because first you said that this axe was likely pre-AA&T, now you are saying that AA&T had the Mann name brands for use. When you contradict yourself you may as well not say anything at all.
Steve Tall, besides finding the 1913 AA&T list that does not show them selling the William Mann brand, also found a 1904 article that showed AA&T selling William Mann brand axes.
The thread on this forum with Steve Tall's usual good and worthwhile research; https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/lippincott-and-william-mann-axe.1352831/

 

[crbnSteeladdict]

Well I guess you have to make up your mind what you are saying, because first you said that this axe was likely pre-AA&T, now you are saying that AA&T had the Mann name brands for use. When you contradict yourself you may as well not say anything at all.

I only tried to explain to you, that there is no chance it was made by Mann Edge Tool Co. You stated:

Your own quoted source, Mann Axe Dynasty, and others says the Lewistown plant was started after the brothers left AA&T. This axe is marked "Lewistown"

Which leaves 2 options: it was made by William Mann Jr. & Co before1889 or AA&TCo.
Maker's mark consisting of 2 separate stamps and punched on the angle makes me think it is earlier piece (but I could be wrong)
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/oldhal-lewistown-pa-red-warrior-axe-1844857465

 

[garry3]

The moment members of Mann clan joined AA&TCo, names of their companies became more of brands than actual names of manufacturing entities. William Mann Jr used both Lewistown and Bellefonte locations on their axes before joining AA&TCo. Around 1892 Lewistown plant was sold to METCo. However METCo did not have right to use William Mann or Robert Mann names. The rights evenutally transfered to Kelly when it merged with bankrupted AA&TCo.

So I believe I'm looking at a William Mann Jr axe made between 1882-1892 with an overlaid bit or is 1882-1889?

 

[crbnSteeladdict]

So I believe I'm looking at a William Mann Jr axe made between 1882-1892 with an overlaid bit or is 1882-1889?

Not sure about time frame. Looks like in 1876 they used WM Mann Superior VS 1884 William Mann Superior maker's mark

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ux5-red-warrior-axe-ad-pennsylvania-154018919

https://www.datamp.org/patents/advance.php?pn=D2948&id=19830&set=1

 

[garry3]

Not sure about time frame. Looks like in 1876 they used WM Mann Superior VS 1884 William Mann Superior maker's mark

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ux5-red-warrior-axe-ad-pennsylvania-154018919

https://www.datamp.org/patents/advance.php?pn=D2948&id=19830&set=1

Just going off of "American Axes" that lists William Mann Jr in Lewiston in 1882. I'm guessing that's when he opened that factory.

The sale to Metco means no Mann stamp there after the sale in 1892?

Like you I don't think that is an AA&T Co axe.

 

[crbnSteeladdict]

Just going off of "American Axes" that lists William Mann Jr in Lewiston in 1882. I'm guessing that's when he opened that factory.

The sale to Metco means no Mann stamp there after the sale in 1892?

Like you I don't think that is an AA&T Co axe.

I believe even before 1882 their maker's mark would state in 2nd line Lewistown Cast Steel. Only Red Warrior paper label would give more exact info : manufactured NEAR Lewistown Penna

 

[Brent Halverson]

Oops, I, being an old senile man, forgot I had another William Mann double-bit laying around of similar vintage, also marked "superior cast steel" but much more weathered and a bit different style, may as well throw it up here too;

 

[garry3]

Oops, I, being an old senile man, forgot I had another William Mann double-bit laying around of similar vintage, also marked "superior cast steel" but much more weathered and a bit different style, may as well throw it up here too;

Thanks for posting those up for us.

We just don't have them in this part of the country.

 

[Brent Halverson]

Thanks for posting those up for us.

We just don't have them in this part of the country.

I am relatively close to Levitown, and am not a rabid axe collector, but I have always picked them up if I was at an estate, garage or yard sale or trash dumpster and could get one for little or nothing. I think it is significant that with that lackadaisical approach two of these ended up in the stack of axe heads in my garage. It tells me that they are not rare or uncommon and the ones I have found were probably made at the time and place that had the largest outputs of axes, it is a probablility game that counts the years and number of axe heads and miles to the sources, sort of an Occam's razor observation. So I always first go with whatever I find is the newest, most produced and nearest to my location, and finding more than one or two of anything gives strength to that view. So I am not interested in opinions that add complications that oppose what is most likely, and I think that is the crux of the Occam's razor method. Thank-you for the thank-you. Winter is closing in and a lot of second-hand sales are disappearing, but I will look through my stashes of axe heads and where I can for a third example of the William Mann label.

 

[crbnSteeladdict]

This axe was was owned by an old-timer when I saw it off to the side at a yard sale and he did not want to let go of it about three months ago for cash, but he said he would trade me for something and a few days ago I found something I had laying around the house, drove over and he traded.

If you ever run into him again, could you ask him if his ancestors were ever involved in Pennsylvania logging industry around 1870-80 or maybe owned a farm and during winter time made extra buck hacking railroad ties. Thanks

 

[rjdankert]

Bob