u suffer a lot, building a debris hut, for no good reason.

bonee

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For the "convenience" of not having to carry 2 lbs of military ponchos and a bit of cord Do you really want to do all that work, risk all that movement, chopping, slipping on ice, falling thru snow covered holes, breaking your leg, being rained on, having to go get firewood, etc. If you have enemies in the area, that fire's light and smoke and scent can spell big trouble. If you do go with making the debris hut, you'll have to smoke it out fairly frequently, or you will be living with a lot of creepy crawly, biting insects. And of course, if you move, you have to do all that shelter making again, and the hut is probably left there for people to see.

You can roll up your ponchos (and the bit of cord that held them up, like a tent, and take it with you inside of 2 minuts. . Inside of the ponchos, to save space, you also roll up the heavy duty space blanket (velcro its edges to render it into a "bag" configuration") the silk sleeping bag liner, and the hammock, and either sling it over your shoulder, or tie it under the bottom of your backpack. The ponchos weigh no more than a tube tent, but are more versatile. The Mylar bag and silk liner are much more compact than regular sleeping bag, more versatile, much lighter, costs much less, and won't suffer a broken or jammed zipper. It won't be ruined if its wet, it can be used to catch rainwater, snow, sleet, dew and frost for safe drinking water. If it's torn, slap a piece of fiberglass reinforced, clear packing tape on it, or sew it, or both. the savings in bulk and weight of, the mylar bag and hammock, as vs a bivvy sack, sleeping bag, and camping pad is more than enough to cover the weight and bulk of the ponchos.

The main downfall of the poncho is that it lets your legs get wet as you move thru wet brush. I'm looking into the feasibility of inverting one poncho, so that the "arms" can become protectlon for my legs, with some cords providing straps to the belt harness of the pack.If you'll wrap your pack in the poncho, it will float, and if you wrap the other poncho on your back, it can help you float, too. In this way, you can swim and push your gear ahead of you, and cross a lake or slow moving river. two ponchos, with 2ft of dried sticks int between them and cord thru the gommet holes, can make raft that will let you "pole push" it across a shallow stretch of water. It will float 2 men, or one man and paddles, you can cross a pond, or very slow river, without freezing your feet.

When I have the above gear, I can sleep fine at 20F degrees. I can sit around at 10F degrees, and I can move ok at 20F degrees. IF I also have proper clothing, like goretex cammies,. 2 pairs each of thermax socks, and polypropelene socks. decent boots, one pair of goretex socks. one spare pair of undershorts, a 1 pc set of expedition weight Thermax long johns, ski mask and ski gloves/ Normally, if it's colder you can arrange for a snow cave, or there's very few enemies around. So you can heat stones in a dakota fire hole (at dusk and dawn), bury them under your hammock, and be warm inside of your tent at 0 F degrees, or a bit colder. That is saying a lot for such lw, compact, multi-use low-cost, readily available gear and clothing, guys.
 
For the "convenience" of not having to carry 2 lbs of military ponchos and a bit of cord. Do you really want to do all that work, risk all that movement, chopping, slipping on ice, falling thru snow covered holes, breaking your leg, being rained on, having to go get firewood, etc. If you have enemies in the area, that fire's light and smoke and scent can spell big trouble. If you do go with making the debris hut, you'll have to smoke it out fairly frequently, or you will be living with a lot of creepy crawly, biting insects. And of course, if you move, you have to do all that shelter making again, and the hut is probably left there for people to see.

You can roll up your ponchos (and the bit of cord that held them up, like a tent, and take it with you inside of 2 minuts. . Inside of the ponchos, to save space, you also roll up the heavy duty space blanket (velcro its edges to render it into a "bag" configuration") the silk sleeping bag liner, and the hammock, and either sling it over your shoulder, or tie it under the bottom of your backpack. The ponchos weigh no more than a tube tent, but are more versatile. The Mylar bag and silk liner are much more compact than regular sleeping bag, more versatile, much lighter, costs much less, and won't suffer a broken or jammed zipper. It won't be ruined if its wet, it can be used to catch rainwater, snow, sleet, dew and frost for safe drinking water. If it's torn, slap a piece of fiberglass reinforced, clear packing tape on it, or sew it, or both. The savings in bulk and weight of, the mylar bag and hammock, as vs a bivvy sack, sleeping bag, and camping pad is more than enough to cover the weight and bulk of the ponchos.

The main downfall of the poncho is that it lets your legs get wet as you move thru wet brush. I'm looking into the feasibility of inverting one poncho, so that the "arms" can become protectlon for my legs, with some cords providing straps to the belt harness of the pack. If you'll wrap your pack in the poncho, it will float, and if you wrap the other poncho on your back, it can help you float, too. In this way, you can swim and push your gear ahead of you, and cross a lake or slow moving river. Two ponchos, with 2ft of dried sticks int between them and cord thru the gommet holes, can make a raft that will let you "pole-push" it across a shallow stretch of water. It will float 2 men and their packs, or one man his pack and a mountain bike. This will let you can cross a pond, or very slow river, without freezing your feet.

When I have the above gear, I can sleep fine at 20F degrees. I can sit around at 10F degrees, and I can move ok at 20F degrees. IF I also have proper clothing, like goretex cammies,. 2 pairs each of thermax socks, and polypropelene socks. decent boots, one pair of goretex socks. one spare pair of undershorts, a 1 pc set of expedition weight Thermax long johns, ski mask and ski gloves/ Normally, if it's colder you can arrange for a snow cave, or there's very few enemies around. So you can heat stones in a dakota fire hole (at dusk and dawn), bury them under your hammock, and be warm inside of your tent at 0 F degrees, or a bit colder. That is saying a lot for such lw, compact, multi-use, low-cost, readily-available gear and clothing, guys.
 
An expedient brush shelter is built when needed, to practice for when needed, or for fun (when fun). Nothing you have said makes any of those situations invalid.

I am not concerned with "enemies."

I hope not to have to rely on expedient shelters and plan accordingly.
 
interesting read

please do share more

Video too please , if you could , of your testing wearing the poncho on your legs .
 
yeah well , you never know who is out there in the woods thesedays ...
some folk spend waaay too long on the misc.survivalism news group too maybe
 
"For the "convenience" of not having to carry 2 lbs of military ponchos and a bit of cord"

You totally missed the point. It is about practicing skills and having fun. For backpacking or camping most people use a shelter like a tent, hammock, tarp etc ete.

"The main downfall of the poncho is that it lets your legs get wet as you move thru wet brush"

I get around that by wearing shorts or gaiters. The actual main down side is getting hung up on thorns. Also the wind can be a pain when a poncho is also used for a pack cover. Pros and Cons.

Also why carry a 2 lb poncho. My Golite is around 10oz and has been beat on for 5 years. Does a bunch of good things.

Pack cover when using my hammock with small factory fly.



UL moderate weather camp.



It even preformed that tactical use of a kid wrap when trout fishing.



"Two ponchos, with 2ft of dried sticks int between them and cord thru the gommet holes, can make a raft that will let you "pole-push" it across a shallow stretch of water. It will float 2 men and their packs, or one man his pack and a mountain bike. This will let you can cross a pond, or very slow river, without freezing your feet."

Do you have any photos or video of that process?
 
I would really like to see pictures of you and a mountain bike in/on a raft made with 2 ft sticks and 2 ponchos.--KV
 
I remember on one of my adventures back when I was younger I was out in the jungle surrounded by enemies, thank god for this cardboard box I had. I used that to make a raft and travel down to my fort (also made from the cardboard box). Luckily I escaped my enemies, while I know doubt could have taken many of them out with my machine gun (which I fashioned from a stick), I ended up escaping in my spaceship which I made out of a cardboard box, this spaceship could fit two men and their packs, or one man and his horse (which you could also make from a stick).
 
I didn't miss any point, pard. I just don't bother practicing what aint needed, and dunno why anyone would? It would not be at all hard to find enemies of smartasses. Should I probe around and find out? :-) What you mean is that you would have no clue how to handle having violent enemies, and you don't believe that anyone else could, either. That part is quite wrong. Sorry if I didn't make it clear. you pile up 2 ft of brush on top of one poncho, and tie the other one on top of it. depending upon the type of wood used, it will float 250 lbs or more, quite easily.
 
If by "enemies" you mean "zombies", then I agree. :D

I agree I guess if you are military or other dire situation where you are in "enemy territory" and have the equipment available, and want to camp and move quickly. I don't have any experience there. But if you get stuck without gear or ponchos, building a debris hut might be helpful right? I think the point of a debris hut is a low tech solution for shelter. If you have ponchos and the professor from Gilligan's island to build you a boat out of said poncho, then I guess you don't need a debris hut. I mean, you could also argue why don't you use a good light weight tarp instead of a poncho, or a light weight tent right?
 
I just don't bother practicing what aint needed, and dunno why anyone would?

Clearly never a scout. Adapt, Improvise, Overcome. To adapt and improvise you need to practice. I don't carry shelter everywhere I go, so having skills in my toolbox gives me confidence to face my enemies of weather and unpreparedness.
 
"The Mylar bag and silk liner are much more compact than regular sleeping bag, more versatile, much lighter, costs much less, and won't suffer a broken or jammed zipper. It won't be ruined if its wet"

This advice should NOT be followed IMHO. Without loft there would be little or no real insulation. Anyone who has actually used Mylar for part of their sleep system finds out rather fast that any increase in rating is marginal at best. At worst the Mylar bag will trap perspiration so now the person has no insulation but is also damp. That is no way to spend a long cold night. My advice is to carry a sleeping bag rated to the proper temperature. Also many synthetic sleeping bags will still offer good insulation if wet and in my experience can actually dry out from body heat during the night. Down is much more problematic in this regard. A broke zipper is hardly the end of the world for a sleeping bag

Mylar does work great as a heat reflector, ground cloth, water catch, wind break, ground pad and will function for a disposable UL ER tarp with duct tape grommets or the pebble trick, not without some risks however.

In this case I am getting both the heat refection and tarp pros of my Mylar.





These two uses derived from a Mylar balloon I found during an outing.

Water catch.



Plate for my forage and packed food.



Ground cloth.



So Mylar is useful but I wouldn't want to sleep in it.
 
Clearly never a scout. Adapt, Improvise, Overcome. To adapt and improvise you need to practice. I don't carry shelter everywhere I go, so having skills in my toolbox gives me confidence to face my enemies of weather and unpreparedness.
:thumbup:

I agree. For example I practice F&S and friction fire methods like the bow drill not because they're needed to start my fire during that outing rather for backup skills and the pure joy of doing it.
 
"Mylar does work great as a heat reflector, ground cloth, water catch, wind break, ground pad and will function for a disposable UL ER tarp with duct tape grommets or the pebble trick, not without some risks however.

You ever try using a small pebble or a bit of dirt to make a "button" to tie the cord to? Seems an easier solution then the duct tape. I haven't tried it on mylar yet but it works well on regular tarps.
 
You ever try using a small pebble or a bit of dirt to make a "button" to tie the cord to? Seems an easier solution then the duct tape. I haven't tried it on mylar yet but it works well on regular tarps.

Good tip. And it works equally well in all temps, wet or dry, which, in my experience duct tape doesn't always.
 
You ever try using a small pebble or a bit of dirt to make a "button" to tie the cord to? Seems an easier solution then the duct tape. I haven't tried it on mylar yet but it works well on regular tarps.

I have done it before with both Mylar and plastic sheet. Didn't take any photos it being done to Mylar but did when using a plastic sheet. The pros are it can be done using stuff found in the field. The cons are yea need to find right sized pebbles or dirt (can be hard to locate on a snow base) and tie cinch/friction knots for each loop if yea really want it to stay. Also like most field solutions it takes more time.

Here is the photo for those who aren't familiar with this method.

 
I have done it before with both Mylar and plastic sheet. Didn't take any photos it being done to Mylar but did when using a plastic sheet. The pros are it can be done using stuff found in the field. The cons are yea need to find right sized pebbles or dirt (can be hard to locate on a snow base) and tie cinch/friction knots for each loop if yea really want it to stay. Also like most field solutions it takes more time.

Here is the photo for those who aren't familiar with this method.


For some reason I thought you were doing the duct tape mod in the field. Thanks for the explanation.
 
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