Ultimate Damascus Hunter/Skinner

Joined
Feb 17, 1999
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When visiting with Brian Lyttle in early August just a week or so before the MKA show, he showed me this knife and the details are his --

"Drop Point Hunter/Skinner -- Blade is San-mai Damascus: 50 layers O1 tool steel and pure Nickel on either side of an O1 tool steel core. Heat treating: austenatized in sale; marquenched and tempered in salt. Handle -- Nickel silver bolster, 416 steel threaded pommel, stabilized maple burl handle."

"The blade was constructed this way to be the ultimate Damasscus hunter/skinner. With the pure Nickel layeers, the knife will always show a vivid contrast, no matter what colour the tool steel layers will turn as the Nickel will not stain. the exposed core ahs also been acid etched which shows off the carbides in the tool steel. this blade shows off the beatuy of a very flashy Damascus which will always maintain itself, no matter what staining agent it is exposed to. Further, the knife has a threaded tang so that it can be taken apart to be properbly serviced should the need arise."

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OAL is 7" and the blade is 3 1/2"

This image was taken outdoors in a sheltered area but the outdoor light still created a blue cast in the steel and this is one of the major hazards of doing knife photography outdoors.

However, this image was taken to show the knife without any staining. The knife had been cleaned with, I believe, scotchpads after having been used at a fine restaurant to cut the Chateaux Briand for 4 that Phyllis, Leonie, Brian and I had the night before.

You can see the carbides from the acid etch in the O1 and the finely defined pattern that is what many of Brian's high end users want in a damascus using knife.

Here is a damascus user that he also created which will have a staining problem unlike the newer model.

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Once having returned home, I was able to photograph the knife under my normal Daylight Flourescent lighting setup and this is the result

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Since the outdoor photos, the knife was used for a number of cutting jobs including Roast Beef at the MKA dinner and porkchops at a buffet breakfast. For both tasks it works very well.

Note that when looking at the blade, the upper area toward the tip does show staining which is to be expected but there is no staining in the patterned area of the blade.

In the image is also one taken outdoors and ther is some reflection on the blade of the rabbits fur background used. Fur is not the easiest background to use as knives tend to sink a bit but it is very easy material to carry when travelling for backgrounds.

Brian also made sheaths for both knives presented.
 
Brian is a very talented knifemaker. I have seen a great deal of his work firsthand and haven't seen or handled any I didn't like.
 
Both Damascus patterns are pretty amazing as well as the knives,
but the San Mai is just extraordinary.
Thanks for sharing,Murray. :thumbup:

Doug
 
I think we must pause for a moment and acknowledge Murray's courage / insanity in actually using a beautiful knife like that. :eek:

That is a gorgeous piece - I'll be over today or tomorrow to have a look at it.

Roger
 
Lovely damascus and knives - except for the pommel, which on those pics look like it's coming from the hardware store (and yes, I realize it probably isn't, but why make a pommel that looks like a bolt?)
 
How dare they be users! One suggestion, next time recess the pommel bolt, Drill slightly large hole than needed for entire head to be below end of handle, They even make small snap in caps for standard holes, that way it would still be able to be disassembled if needed, but bolt would be hidden until the need arose. Otherwise, they are great lookers. Congrats to maker and owner.

James
 
Good thoughts re the pommel. Brian makes a little tools from micarta to aid disassembling but I'm not sure how a recessed item would work. I also like the method that Karl Anderson uses and this leads to a nice looking pommel/butt. I'll have to mention this to Brian and also alert him to the thread.

Do th emakers have any comments re the steel selection and heat treating based upon the limited info in the post? I also would hope Brian might take a bit of time to get involved in the discussion if it turns that way.

Oh, yes, I had a nice steak last night prepared by Phyllis and the knife worked wonderfully.

The pattern on hte knife that is not San Mai, is terrific and that knife was purchased at the 2007 CKG show that Brian often comes to in March of each year. Last I heard, he is planning to be at it again and will have both hunters and some tanto style knives with this "ultimate damascus". I believe he also will have some other longer bladed pieces with his carry system too so look forward to all of that in a few months.
 
Do th emakers have any comments re the steel selection and heat treating based upon the limited info in the post? I also would hope Brian might take a bit of time to get involved in the discussion if it turns that way.
I think O1 is a very good choice for a forging steel in a hunting knife, because it has the highest wear resistance of any of the common forging alloys. It is a good choice for the outside san-mai layers because it etches darker than just about anything because of the high manganese. If tougher outside layers were the purpose of the san-mai I might say use something else, but that would be of little benefit in this knife, so contrast is the major thing you're looking for. I don't know what sale is, so I can't comment on that. I think marquenching can be benficial, you didn't say what tempering temperature you used or what hardness the knife ended up at. I like a fairly high hardness with a fairly low temper, I would use 350-375F for a final hardness of 62-63 Rc unless there is a concern about the user subjecting the tip to a lot of lateral stress. You also didn't comment on the normalizing and annealing cycle. I think most forgers could improve the quality of their knives if they used a heat treating oven for their annealing, and using a fairly standard anneal (Crucible has an old data sheet on O1 that you can find by searching on Google with a good anneal). I am also a believer in triple quenching as far as producing a very fine grain is concerned, O1 is very suited for it because of its high hardenability. The finer the grain gets the lower the hardenability of a steel is, and so steels like 1095 that are water hardening are very difficult to harden when the grain gets that fine. O1, which has such high hardenability it can almost be plate quenched, doesn't suffer as much from the loss in hardenability because of that high manganese which povides that very great hardenability.

As to forging for high performance, some makers make a big deal out of forging at very low temperatures. I think it is best to start at a fairly high temperature, especially when starting with large round bar, or when welding damascus. I do think the temperature should be lowered gradually as you get closer and closer to final thickness, high temperatures are required at the beginning to prevent carbide banding and to make the carbides as small as possible, and the lowering of the temperature to final thickness is to promote a fine grain.

I don't know what Bryan Little's methods are but these are some of my views on forging, heat treating, and steel selection for high performance.
 
Got to play with that one today - just a terrific little knife. Scary sharp, too.

Roger
 
I forgot to mention that the damascus looks great, and so do the knives. There's not a lot of damascus I like.
 
Good thoughts re the pommel. Brian makes a little tools from micarta to aid disassembling but I'm not sure how a recessed item would work. I also like the method that Karl Anderson uses and this leads to a nice looking pommel/butt. I'll have to mention this to Brian and also alert him to the thread.

Do th emakers have any comments re the steel selection and heat treating based upon the limited info in the post? I also would hope Brian might take a bit of time to get involved in the discussion if it turns that way.

Oh, yes, I had a nice steak last night prepared by Phyllis and the knife worked wonderfully.

The pattern on hte knife that is not San Mai, is terrific and that knife was purchased at the 2007 CKG show that Brian often comes to in March of each year. Last I heard, he is planning to be at it again and will have both hunters and some tanto style knives with this "ultimate damascus". I believe he also will have some other longer bladed pieces with his carry system too so look forward to all of that in a few months.

I personally played with the San-Mai hunter at the MKA Show. Murray allowed me to take it down and check out the insides. Its incredably well made. I marvel at the damascus pattern being so even on both sides. That is hard to do, I dont care who you are. The hardware store pommel should be re-thought next time but it is finished nicely and adds to the utility feeling of this one. It screams "Use Me, I can take it"
 
I have spent many day out at Brian Lyttles home and know that the bolt... or "de-breach" nut as he calls them because the fastening area is indeed recessed thought teh bolt is simply there to aid in the dismantaling...

Mokelock
 
Mokelock -- I think perhaps what might have been on others minds is to make the dismantling nut less "nut" looking and try something a bit more elegant. However, Brian does make these to be used so that is a factor I'm sure. Mine does get used. Now of course that was the idea and it is the only one of about a dozen Brian Lyttle knives that I hve that does get used.
 
Murray, well I knw what you mean I spent a while out in his shop does some mokume work on my wifes engadgement ring and also grinding like crazy with him... funny though how he can teach you reall anything that you ask... I had the big goddy toold box with teh motorbike on it... if you saw it... however I will be in touch and best wishs and kind regaurds...
Have you seen his new DVD that him and Lambert and Lightfoot are on... worth a look.

Mokelock
 
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