UmnuMUDD? is it just me?

OregonEdge

OregonEdge

Joined
Aug 13, 2005
Messages
1,283
Sorry if I'm late noticing this, but did anyone catch the pivot design similarity on the new Reeve folder to the MUDD? Even if construction is different they are selling it's resistance to dirt. Also, looks like they have adapted a bit of the Hawks concept around insulating ring thingies. I'm sure it's a totally original concept, but if not, and being that they are both in Idaho, did the Hawks consult on this? Again, if this was already covered, I apologize.
 

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I realize that they look very similiar, but how else would one protect the pivot from getting dirty? Pretty much the only easy method is to put a seal around the pivot, or keep the knife in a plastic baggie.

My bet is that there so similiar is because its simply the best method.
 
The reference to the Hawk's design assistance in the new CR doesn't address the pivot. It speaks specifically about the Hawk's thumb stud o-rings to reduce the shock and impact of the studs being used as a blade stop.

From Chris Reeve's website:

"The thumb lug doubles as the stop pin, ensuring a solid lockup. Around the lug is a polyurethane o-ring that acts as a shock absorber to cushion the impact of the lug against the handle. Never wishing to copy other designs without giving credit, Grant and Gavin Hawk originated the shock absorber concept in one of their many innovative designs. We appreciate their consent for Chris to use this adaptation of their concept." Below is a picture from the CR site showing the o-rings and their use as a "bumper":

attachment.php




If CR did in fact solicit the help and or design of the Hawk's pivot, there is no mention of it anywhere on the CR site. Nor does the CR site mention that the pivot is sealed against the elements.
 

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There had to be some sort of collaboration there. The pivots look too much alike. I'd say that the Hawks at least infuluenced it even if the mechanism is completely different. You never know with knife makers. They mostly seem to be good about sharing information and such to get the job done, and there are only so many ways to skin a cat.
 
seems to me that CR could have done just about anything with the pivot. I also noticed that they didn't give credit for that most recognizable element. At least it's obvious, however, that the Hawks were aware of it. ??
 
How is selling a knife that's supposed to have resistance to dirt make the knife like the Mudd? I'm pretty sure this knife has been in development since before the Mudd was released too...so I know there was no copying going on....especially from a reputable maker like CRK. Isn't the Mudd sealed some how? While I like the Mudd, I don't see too much similarity. The concept is along the same lines. But I see the Mudd as being more of a soldiers knife. More affordable on a soldiers pay grade as well.
 
pbubsy said:
How is selling a knife that's supposed to have resistance to dirt make the knife like the Mudd? I'm pretty sure this knife has been in development since before the Mudd was released too...so I know there was no copying going on....especially from a reputable maker like CRK. Isn't the Mudd sealed some how? While I like the Mudd, I don't see too much similarity. The concept is along the same lines. But I see the Mudd as being more of a soldiers knife. More affordable on a soldiers pay grade as well.
Click to expand...

pbubsy, I don't think anyone is saying the CRK is like the MUDD. I'm trying to say that the new CRK isn't the same as the Hawk's MUDD. The Hawk's clearly state in print and on this forum that the MUDD is designed to be impervious to dirt/sand/elements at the pivot. I haven't read anything from Chris Reeve that his knife is supposed to have the same properties. It was brought up here that the two look similar, and an assumption was incorrectly made. I pointed this out. I also quoted CRK's website, which is linked above.

No one is questioning CR or his knives. I own one, and love it.

As for development time, the Hawks first revealed this knife in its finished form to the public in Las Vegas in 2006. Perhaps CRK had theirs in development long before the Hawks...I don't know and won't speculate on this.
 
my main thing is that perhaps they should have used a different design for the pivot exterior. It looks JUST like the mudds exactly with the recessed center and the holes around it. I just would have thought since the hawks are already in a relationship with Kershaw on the Mudd, that maybe they might have done something a little different. I'm not comparing the different intended purposes of each knife or the overall appearance. I also believe the CR is not really in the same markets to compete. Just an observation
 
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no one complains about phillips head screws, so I don't know what's wrong with using spanners.
 
Ya know. . .to tell ya the truth i've played with Cris's new knife and didn't even notice the similarities on the pivot. I knew about the stop pin, because Cris had called us up and asked about it. I was pretty excited to hear that Cris wanted to use one of our ideas. . . Cris has been a huge help to us over the years. When my dad first started thinking about making knives he went to Cris for advice. Cris told him to go home, make a knife, bring it by and he would critique it. That first knife was pretty embarrassing, and Cris was quick to point out the problems. Ever since we've taken down our prototypes to show Cris. . . including the original Mudd prototype, so if he was some how influenced by the design, then that's pretty cool if you ask me!
I can't say for sure that we were the first ones to use a pivot like that, i've seen a lot of knives with spanner holes, and i've seen them with dimples in the center. Can't say that i've seen the combination before. . . but it's tough to know what's been done and what hasn't. I personally don't feel that Cris copied us, and the similarities definitely stop there. I doubt Cris even knows. . .
As SPXtrader pointed out, Cris isn't claiming to have a 'sealed pivot' his contribution on that knife are the holes in the washers to allow room for grease to be retained for a smoother operating knife.
I do appreciate you guys lookin out for us, but i don't think this is an issue.

Gavin Hawk
 
I have an Umnumzaan and can testify to the fact that the pivot is not sealed. The pivot design was something I noticed right away. I had signed up for this knife back in 2006 when it was first mentioned that a new folder design, with Bill Harsey, was going to come about. As far as I recall there was never a drawing, or photo of what was being done, and I had actually forgotten I had signed up until I got a call from CRK, at the end of August, telling me my Umnumzaan was ready to ship. Of course by this time I had seen the proto Umnumzaan's and was familiar with the pivot screw. To loosen and tighten the ZT0500, I placed two small metal rods into two opposite holes, placed a screwdriver shaft between them and either tightened or loosened the pivot. This presented no problem on the ZT, but trying this on my Umnumzaan only resulted in the whole assembly moving as both sides have the same 4-hole design. There will be a tool available for taking down the Umnumzaan, and I hope it takes into account that spinning pivot.
 
blademaker said:
Ya know. . .to tell ya the truth i've played with Cris's new knife and didn't even notice the similarities on the pivot. I knew about the stop pin, because Cris had called us up and asked about it. I was pretty excited to hear that Cris wanted to use one of our ideas. . . Cris has been a huge help to us over the years. When my dad first started thinking about making knives he went to Cris for advice. Cris told him to go home, make a knife, bring it by and he would critique it. That first knife was pretty embarrassing, and Cris was quick to point out the problems. Ever since we've taken down our prototypes to show Cris. . . including the original Mudd prototype, so if he was some how influenced by the design, then that's pretty cool if you ask me!
I can't say for sure that we were the first ones to use a pivot like that, i've seen a lot of knives with spanner holes, and i've seen them with dimples in the center. Can't say that i've seen the combination before. . . but it's tough to know what's been done and what hasn't. I personally don't feel that Cris copied us, and the similarities definitely stop there. I doubt Cris even knows. . .
As SPXtrader pointed out, Cris isn't claiming to have a 'sealed pivot' his contribution on that knife are the holes in the washers to allow room for grease to be retained for a smoother operating knife.
I do appreciate you guys lookin out for us, but i don't think this is an issue.

Gavin Hawk
Click to expand...

Well I guess that takes care of that.:D

Good call SPX.:thumbup:
 
hardheart said:
no one complains about phillips head screws, so I don't know what's wrong with using spanners.
Click to expand...

yep, i think mystery solved.... i just have one clarification, is a spanner what is used in the pivot. Is that a standard look like a phillips head screw?. THAT would be something i wasn't aware of. Let us know
 
once again, I hadn't started a thread in awhile and the similarity just struck me when I saw it. That's why I asked and that's what a forum like this is good for. thanks all. So much is borrowed legitimately it's hard to keep track of.
 
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