Umnumzaan... New pivot vs old pivot?

3migo

3migo

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Feb 23, 2013
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I'm curious to hear everyone's opinion on the new and old Umnum's. I've been thinking about getting one lately, and I'm trying to decide if I want to buy a new one, or an older model.

Which do you guys prefer?
 
I was thinking about this aswell, I dont even know what the actual difference is??
 
joeyza said:
I was thinking about this aswell, I dont even know what the actual difference is??
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I prefer the look of the new pivot, but other than that I don't know the real difference. However it seems that many people swear by the old pivot.
 
My take on it-

If it's going to be a user then get the new style. You don't need special tools to take it down and you won't have to worry about hyper extending the lockbar because of the overtravel stop .
If it's going to be a collectible get the old first version with no overtravel button and old style pivot. Also pick up a CRK pivot tool as the combo together will be worth more.
 
The only differences are the cosmetics and whether you need a special tool for takedown.

If you prefer the original pivot but don't like the over-travel stop, there are plenty of those floating around. The post above is a good take on one way to look at things.
 
galactorrhea said:
I much prefer the old pivot for aesthetic reasons. The newer one just looks out of place to me.
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This ^

For me the 4-pin pivot lug was one of the unique aspects of the Umnumzaan that made me want the knife, and I really don't care for the looks of the OTS at all. Both of those factors are aesthetic, however in use, I also like the older pivot as it makes a great "pinch point" for my thumb and index finger for that style of grip. I also prefer the older styles "square" jimping on the blade.

 
I know that it's been covered many times but in MY opinion the older style will have the edge in strength.
The OD of the pivot where it goes through the blade may be the same but the larger OD of the "flange" on the old style pivot holds against more of the scale. It also has two points of contact by how the edge of the pivot is stepped like a safe door. the new pivot touches the knife at its OD where it goes through the knife and then with the small flange that creates the tension to hold them together when you tighten it, the old style not only touches there but has the other two points of contact created by the steps, and being inlaid into the handle. It also has a larger flange to hold it all tight to the scales.
I think that this is probably a negligible difference but on a knife that's held together solely by the pivot and one stand off I think that the extra support against twisting of any sort would be helpful.

I've carried and used an Umnum as my edc for close to 3 years now, I like it so mush that I bought two more, in all of that time I've noticed that the action gets gritty now and then with no "obvious" reason, if I give it a little twist and the close it and open it again the grittiness is gone. I've never had this prob with my Seb's, it's not a dirty detent ball or junk in the pivot either- I've checked. It seems to be that the knife can occasionally "twist" a bit and by doing what I mentioned above it seems to straighten it back out, oh and I should mention that the pivot is tight when this happens.

It's a great knife, one of the best I've ever touched and by far one of my most favorite to own, carry, and use. Mine may be the exception with its little quirk but I still love it and trust my life to it.

Although the new pivot on the Umnum is prob still more knife than most people will ever need I think that the original pivot has a leg up on it. Chris is an Engineer and I'm sure that he "inlaid" that old pivot into the handles, creating those steps for a reason beyond aesthetics when he could've just ended it like he did the Ti-lock, new Umnum, 25 pivot and saved a lot of precision machine work and time- which costs money.

Purely my speculation though, thanks for reading.
 
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I prefer the older pivot for aesthetics, but the newer version for usability. My older Zaan is not as easy to disengage the lock bar due to less surface area for my thumb. On top od that, the newer pivot is far easier to service.
 
Officer's Match said:
For me the 4-pin pivot lug was one of the unique aspects of the Umnumzaan that made me want the knife
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Bingo! I was attracted to the Zaan's blade profile and milling on the scales. But, the old pivot and largely spaced square jimping gave the Zaan an even bolder appearance. So, while I still love the new Zaan because it retains the prominent features that first attracted me to it (blade profile & cross-hatch milling); the difference in my thought process is:
-New Zaan, "I'd like to own that knife".
-Old Zaan, "I must own that knife".
 
I resonate what others have mentioned. The old style is THE ONLY way to go. :D 1Abominable1 and US-steel sum it up perfectly. Why CRK changed for the sake of the few people who didn't enjoy the 4-pivot tool, remains a mystery to me. The fact still remains - 2 tools are needed for takedown anyway in both cases AND one less screw is there to hassle with as compared with the sebenza which has 3. With new changes, I see no advantage in asthetics or in functionality over getting the Seb 25 with perhaps exception of the swedge. Yet the 25's ergos and cool blade hollow-flat grind make up for it.
 
It would be beyond awesome if CRK milled a hex into the middle of the old pivot for a hex tool, that way it could retain the asthetics . Best of both worlds IMO.
However, I doubt that would ever happen, so in the mean time just keep searching.
 
Officer's Match said:
Bigger pivot hardware = less room for "Made in Idaho". :D
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+ 10 :cool:


AbyssalTentacle said:
It would be beyond awesome if CRK milled a hex into the middle of the old pivot for a hex tool, that way it could retain the asthetics . Best of both worlds IMO.
However, I doubt that would ever happen, so in the mean time just keep searching.
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That thought crossed my mind also, way back when I picked up my first Ti-lock. Even then I was thinking..."this could somehow be in the future for CRK". That pivot works perfectly for the Ti-lock because of the limited space and flows with the theme better. Something about it reminds me of an eagle eye........Skwaaaak :p
 
Functionally/strength I'm guessing it's a non-issue. The old pivot looks much more elegant and it really set the design apart from the Sebenza and flows with the handle. The new version just looks "downgraded/cheapened" to me. The new version does look less complicated and it's probably reduced manufacturing time and cost making the same pivots for the 25 and Umnumzaan.

The new version is easier to tear down with standard tools that most people probably have in their home already. However, I doubt most people were EDC'ing two 1/8" hex keys as part of their standard kit before buying a Umnumzaan so either requires the carrying of dedicated take down tools if you want that functionality in the field. I can see where people might have complained about having to buy the special tool (not sure if it was included with the original knives, it should have been even if they had to increase the price $10 IMO).

As for my dream pivot, it would be designed aesthetically like the old Umnumzaan pivot, but be a "tighten and forget" bushing style pivot, perhaps with a hex key setup in the center instead of the 4 holes. To me that is the pinnacle of simplicity and reliability compared to a pivot that has to be friction adjusted. However, I'm guessing it takes a lot more fitting/adjustment to get a "tighten and forget" pivot just right requiring even more manufacturing time and cost compared to either design.
 
I don't have any experience taking down a knife with the old pivot (but my friend owns one so I have messed with it) but I love my zaan startac. The pattern leaves only a little room for the Idaho made stamp, and the grip is great. The pivot is very easy to service, and there is no way anyone should worry about breaking it because basically the entire rest of the knife would fail before the pivot. It is easy to disengage the lock on the new one, much more so than the original model.
 
All this talk about Umnum's made me go out and find a pre-lbs. post stamp. It was my second crk years ago and should have never sold it. Oh yeah best zaan is always the one in hand. ;)
 
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Does anyone know if I could send in my old Pivot zaan, and have a new Tanto blade fitted to it?
 
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