Unable to get an even close to sharp edge (next steps)

[Jetlau3111]

Hey all,

I've been experimenting with a Delica 4 that I recently picked up. It got very dull and when I tried the sharpie trick, it didn't seem to be taking any material off of the edge. Then I set about trying to reprofile the blade at 30 degrees. This was taking forever and not seeming to do anything so I tried taping some 80 grit sandpaper to the corners and hitting the knife with it. This has caused the edge to get scratched on both sides. In addition, a good 5 minutes on each side has seemed to leave the knife duller than anything.

Should I call it quits at this point and send it back into Spyderco in Golden for a sharpening?

What would be your next step if you only had a Sharpmaker with the medium and fine stones? How would you best obtain a razor edge again?

Thanks in advance. Sorry for the noob questions. Just trying to learn more about sharpening.

 

[bgentry]

The sort of short answer:

1. Learning to sharpen on a VERY dull knife is difficult at best. Practicing on something that's closer to sharp is easier. Or for the SharpMaker, learning on something that's already at or under 30 degrees inclusive is much easier.
2. For blades that need to be reprofiled, I firmly believe the SharpMaker is the wrong tool. A good coarse bench stone is a better idea for these kinds of blades. Norton Crystolon is a very good stone for the price and cuts just about any steel available. I also very much like the DMT stones. They are more expensive and more delicate, but very good tools for any steel.

Brian.

 

[tchapman414]

Though there are certainly better reprofiling tools than the SharpMaker, it is certainly possible, especially with the diamond stones. After a recent sharpening experience, I have a good practice knife suggestion - a Victorinox Swiss Army knife. I offered and sharpened a friend's SAK recently, and it was about as sharp as a butter knife. I went through the motions, starting with the diamonds, and took the extremely dull little knife back to shaving sharpness. I certainly wouldn't want to try this on something like S30V or ZDP-189, but the softer stainless of the SAK made for a great experience in reprofiling. If you have a dull or reprofile-able one lying around, give it a shot for practice in technique.

 

[G. Scott H.]

Welcome aboard. :thumbup:

I'd say at this point you might want to send it in and have them fix it up for you. I don't know what their sharpening policy is like, but you might indicate when you send it in that you'd like it at 30* included so you can easily touch it up on the Sharpmaker when you get it back. That would let you do a 40* micro bevel on the SM if you wanted, which would make touch ups a breeze. Get yourself a nice Norton or DMT bench stone in the meantime, and also pick up a few cheap blades to practice on. Also spend a LOT of time in this section of the forum. There's no better place for reading about every conceivable aspect of knife sharpening. Don't be afraid to ask plenty of questions while you're practicing on those cheap knives either. We're here to help one another out. Better to ask a "noob" question than to goof up a nice blade. :thumbup:

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Hey all,

I've been experimenting with a Delica 4 that I recently picked up. It got very dull and when I tried the sharpie trick, it didn't seem to be taking any material off of the edge. Then I set about trying to reprofile the blade at 30 degrees. This was taking forever and not seeming to do anything so I tried taping some 80 grit sandpaper to the corners and hitting the knife with it. This has caused the edge to get scratched on both sides. In addition, a good 5 minutes on each side has seemed to leave the knife duller than anything.

Should I call it quits at this point and send it back into Spyderco in Golden for a sharpening?

What would be your next step if you only had a Sharpmaker with the medium and fine stones? How would you best obtain a razor edge again?

Thanks in advance. Sorry for the noob questions. Just trying to learn more about sharpening.

Within those limitations specifically, and assuming you're not comfortable with other freehand options (and there are countless options), I'd go back to the sandpaper on the rods. BUT, for future reference, don't go any lower than maybe 220-400 grit, and work upwards through about 1000. Then go back to the medium rods, which are roughly equivalent to 1200-grit wet/dry sandpaper. 80-grit is WAY too coarse, and will easily complicate things, as you've already discovered (deep scratches, edge chewed up, etc.).

Also for future reference, you might look into investing in the diamond rods for the SM. Good diamond hones used this way can leave great edges by themselves, and using the existing medium & fine rods you've already got can easily refine them, coming off the diamond.


David

 

[Jetlau3111]

Thanks for all of the helpful responses everyone. Few follow ups.

1) Is there a recommended place to pickup the diamond rods? Should I just go with these or are there better/cheaper alternatives? http://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-204D...31936&sr=8-1&keywords=sharpmaker+diamond+rods

2) I understand that when starting from scratch, one should start at the 30 degree setting and set the bevel angle, then proceed to 40 (optional) to put on a more durable microbevel.
Given that I have a 40 degree microbevel already, are my only options to continue sharpening at 40? Otherwise I would have to go back and reprofile?

3) I've learned to not sharpen all the way to the tips using the rods (as the tip can slip off and blunt the point)... Is it best to just go close to the tip using the rods, then sharpen up to the tip on the flats?

Thanks again

 

[tchapman414]

1. That's exactly where I purchased mine, as it was the best price I could find. I've always had impeccable service from them.

2. You'll only have to reset the back bevel after multiple times of sharpening on the 40 microbevel. I personally prefer to leave my edges at a straight 30 degrees, but preferences vary.

3. That's a good method until you become fully confident in taking it to the tip on the corners of the rods. I've found the key is to make slow, deliberate strokes. This will help you keep your edge angle even, and will make it much easier to sharpen carefully and smoothly right to the tip.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

I'd suggest you go back to 30 inclusive and re-establish the apex. Look at Magnanimous thread on sticky, it will help giving you insight what to look for when sharpening.

Once the full apex at 30 achieved, you can then maintain with 40 on the fine/ultrafine, or back to medium/fine/ultrafine.

Welcome and good luck! Above has all the good advices, follow them (with the understanding from the sticky, it's easier to grasp what those masters say )

 

[cbwx34]

I've learned to not sharpen all the way to the tips using the rods (as the tip can slip off and blunt the point)... Is it best to just go close to the tip using the rods, then sharpen up to the tip on the flats?

I wouldn't use the corner of the rods at all, especially for reprofiling. just use the flats.

 

[bgentry]

Given that I have a 40 degree microbevel already, are my only options to continue sharpening at 40? Otherwise I would have to go back and reprofile?

I don't think you have a microbevel. If you did, your blade would more likely be very sharp. Microbevels are very small and they cut into the bevel very fast. You either have a blade that's greater than 40 degrees inclusive, or you're just having a little learning curve issue with the SM.

3) I've learned to not sharpen all the way to the tips using the rods (as the tip can slip off and blunt the point)... Is it best to just go close to the tip using the rods, then sharpen up to the tip on the flats?

I see little reason to use the corners at all. My advice is to stick with the flats *only* and do full strokes to the tip, stopping with the tip on the stone *very* close to the bottom. In fact, at one time I was stopping as the tip contacted the plastic base. That was a good "stopper" for me.

Brian.

 

[Jetlau3111]

So I finally got the diamond stones in the mail. One question is, how long do you guys guess it would take to obtain a sharp edge on the 30 degree setting on the Sharpmaker using the diamond stones? I think I read somewhere else that it should be around 10 to 20 minutes. Continuing with the diamond stones should provide a very sharp paper cutting edge without going to the other stones correct? Right now I'm just continuing to sharpen at the 30 degree setting lightly with the diamond stones on the flats.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

So I finally got the diamond stones in the mail. One question is, how long do you guys guess it would take to obtain a sharp edge on the 30 degree setting on the Sharpmaker using the diamond stones? I think I read somewhere else that it should be around 10 to 20 minutes. Continuing with the diamond stones should provide a very sharp paper cutting edge without going to the other stones correct? Right now I'm just continuing to sharpen at the 30 degree setting lightly with the diamond stones on the flats.

It'll take however long it takes. Way too many variables to predict how long you'll need to fully apex a new edge (for example: steel type & hardness, blade size, current edge angle & edge thickness, pressure used, technique). Patience rules; take your time and don't rush, or results will suffer, and keep pressure light, as heavy pressure also ruins results, and will shorten the life of your diamond rods. Use the diamond rods in the same manner as the ceramics: keep working until a burr is produced & 'flipped' from both sides, then start working the burr off with very light passes; you can start this on the diamond, if you wish, and go from there.

You should get at least great toothy & wicked-sharp edges from the diamond, if used alone. If you want a finer edge finish (independent of sharpness), then use the ceramic rods.


David

 

[The Aflac Duck]

^^Obsessed with Edges covered all you need to know.

However, once you get your knife sharp on the sharpmaker and know what to look for (burr, apex, etc), try freehand sharpening. Get yourself a Fallkniven DC4 stone, it has a diamond stone on one side and synthetic saphire on the other, it produces great edges all by itself. They are cheap, and if you get the hang of it, you can upgrade to much finer stones for refined and polished edges, or you can refine your edge on the ultra fine rods once you reprofile to where you want by hand.

I never use my sharpmaker for more that a minute each knife, I usually reprofile to around 30 inclusive by hand (or on paperwheels) then make a microbevel with a few passes on the sharpmaker.

IMO the sharpmaker is very limited and is more for touch ups rather than reprofiles.