UNBELIEVABLE!!! SAK Quality....

U

UnknownVT

Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
2,575
I have always regarded Wengers equal in quality to Victorinox SAKs (Swiss Army Knives) - just that I had a personal preference for Victorinox.

BUT - UNBELIEVABLE!!! Dept....

From doing the all tools open photo of a SwissBuck (made by Wenger) -
SwissBuckCamper.jpg
SwissBuckTangStamp2.jpg

for just those few minutes - would you believe that it has severely weakened the backspring on the main blade/small blade/corkscrew?

I wouldn't have either -
except BOTH the main and small blades now have play in the open-close direction when fully open - the corkscrew will not snap back into the place....

and I am not exaggerating - I have obviously tried to cure this by well lubing the joints, to not much improvement -

Here's the proof -
SwissBuckBSpring.jpg


Look at the positions of the corkscrew and main blade - no, I have not propped those tools open - try that on any Victorinox and it's just not possible as those tools would have snapped shut long ago......

Now this might just explain why the nailfiles on my like new Wenger Cyclist and used "Forrester" now have play in the open-close direction when fully open - since I had all the tools open for photos on both of them.

If you have access to SOSAK - please see this thread

UNBELIEVABLE! - and that's put a severe negative connotation for me on the quality of Wengers......

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
 
I also prefer Victorinox over Wenger--there's just something about the Vics that the wengers don't have.

Having said that...
I do own ALOT of Vics and Wengers and I don't think there is much difference between the two in the quality department.

None of my Wengers have any problems with the backsprings.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
allenC said:
None of my Wengers have any problems with the backsprings.
Click to expand...

I really would not have thought what happened was possible -

BUT if you're willing to risk it -
please try opening all the tools like in the photo above -
leave them like that for about 10-15 minutes -
then close all the tools and see if you've managed to induce any play in the nailfile/small blade, main blade or weaken the snap of the corkscrew -
but please beware that there is a risk........

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
 
I haven´t noticed problems like that in my Wengers, I´ve disassembeld a couple and noticed nothing wrong with the springs, they do feel a bit weaker than Victorinox though. I do have a problem with one in which the lock doesn´t hold and use it as a regular slipjoint, I will try leaving one partialy open for a while and come back later to report.


OK, I left an old six spring wide Wenger with all blades partialy opened for 16 minutes, all blades still snap open but one does not snap closed, it will stay closed but it has to be closed fully by hand, it´s a multisize wrench blade sharing the sping with a Phillips driver, being a double ended spring it had a bit more stress but that is also the case with the can opener/screwdriver spring and that one is fine.


Luis
 
This is why I like half stops on my slipjoints. I'm not surprised this would happen.
 
I have never had a problem like this with any of my Vic's. I have always felt Vic's are better quality than Wengers. I have also been told that opening more than one blade/tool on a slipjoint at once is abusive to them.
 
The only Wenger I've had was a gift from my parents. Don'y remember the model but it had a locking blade. The lock stopped working after about a year of moderate use. Stopped working as in it was as if it had no lock at all. Before and since I've trusted the Vics I've had and they've never let me down.
 
Just to be clear this is NOT an isolated incident -

It was just that I was not aware of this problem until this particular SwissBuck -
I have had TWO (other) regular Wengers backsprings severely weaken due to opening all the tools half-way.

A "like new" Wenger Cyclist and a used "Forrester" where the effect was noticable play in the nailfile in the open-close direction when fully opened - they are still that way.
(Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure I would have noticed any play in the nailfile before now - since I normally check the action of all the tools - especially on the Cyclist that I've had for a number of years from new.)

I did not suspect the backspring weakening from the mere few minutes of having all the tools half open - to take photos literally only takes me a few minutes - 10-15 minutes MAX - as I use a scanner attached to my computer - and I am so used to doing these photos that it's "routine".

I have definitely done this to numerous Victorinox SAKs with no noted detrimental effects -
I have only done it to 7 Wengers - and 3 of them now exhibit play - or weakened backsprings.

I do realize that 7 is hardly a large sample - but 3 out of 7 even if it may not be statistically significant -
it's terrible for me - I now have 3 Wengers (one of them is the SwissBuck) that I now consider marginal.

I never would have thought this - why would I have bought so many used Wengers at a time - if I didn't think Wengers were basically "equals" of Victorinox at least in action/quality?

As of right now I am very disappointed with Wengers.....
and I am very UNlikely to want to buy another Wenger, right now......

FWIW -

It makes a difference whether the tools are all opened fully or half-way -

Look closely at the action of the backspring when opening or closing the knife -

Opening the all the tools does NOT put stress on the backsprings - if FULLY opened -

it's opening the tools HALF-WAY (like in my photos) - that puts stress on the backsprings

The main blade, small blade (or nailfile) and corkscrew (or phillips) combination opened HALF-WAY puts maximum stress on that backspring in opposing directions.
Try THAT and leave it for about half an hour and see if it weakens the backspring noticably.....
again please be warned that I consider it risky, and it may "ruin" your Wenger SAK......

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.Net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.Net
 
Disappointing. Have a Swissbuck that I've had and used for probalby 6-7 yeras, and it still "locks" nicely (yhes, I know it's not really a lock, but backspring still going strong on it). Course, same is true of the two V'nox's I've had for about same amount of time. Been happyw ith all three.
 
Okay, after reading this thread I just had to see for myself.

last night at 8:00pm I fanned open all the blades of my Wenger Highlander, putting as much stress on the springs as possible, and I let it stay open that way until this morning at 8:00am (twelve hours total).

Well, I'm glad to report that the springs work just fine.

They open with as much snap as before, and they close with just as much snap as before.

I will say that none of my Wengers have as much "walk-and-talk" as my Victorinox SAKs.
So I do believe Victorinox makes the best SAK.

Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe you're unlucky?

Happy hunting,
Allen.
 
I've only ever handled two Wengers, and neither had the walk and talk of Victorinox. Also, each one had slight side-to-side play in at least one tool/blade.
Victorinox is the ONLY SAK for me. ;)

Paul
 
allenC said:
Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe you're unlucky?
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for taking a risk - much appreciated.

I have had 3 out of 7 develop problems.

I will grant you 7 is hardly a repesentative or statistically significant sample -
but they are from different time periods (ie: not all bought at the same time).
If it's luck I would consider myself EXTREMELY UNlucky.

However you might note that's 3 out of 7 - which means that trying it on one may not result in any problems -
since I do have 4 other Wengers out of the 7 that do not exhibit problems -
well, at least none that I can detect - other than noticably less snap than Victorinox SAKs......

Thank you very much though, it is good to know they are not ALL like that -
but then again I never expected ANY to be like that, much less 3....

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
 
Well, I do have about five other Wengers....

I'll test them out and let you know how they perform.

BTW, I totally agree with you that 3 out of 7 is NOT acceptable.
Maybe you should fire off an E-mail to Wenger and see what they are willing to do?

I'll post tomorrow how my other Wengers fair after a long night of spring-stressing.
But, regardless of the results--Victorinox still rules!

Good luck,
Allen.
 
hmmm, as a swiss officer with several hundred days of service i have never had the idea to use two tools at the same time (and that in a half way position!). why should i do that? for taking a picture of it while opening a can of corned beef and simultaneously disassembling my gun? well, i don't know...

brightred
 
Due to some holiday-related family crisis of the most trivial kind (just more stress and drama), the testing was rescheduled.

I'll try to do it tonight.

Allen.
 
My Victorinox Huntsman was my first real knife that I proudly bought with my
own money back when I was 12 years old. Now I'm just about 34, and that same Huntsman has been a daily user all this time. Other than replacing the scissors spring now and then, there has never been a problem.

I got a Wenger for my wife a few years ago and it felt vaguely "cheaper" to me, although I couldn't specifically say why.
 
Well, I finally got around to testing all of my Wengers (and a few Victorinox knives too).

I fanned the blades of all the knives open, placing the maximum amount of stress on the springs, and let them stay that way for six hours.

Here's the list of knives I tested.

Victorinox:
Soldier
Pioneer
Pioneer Harvester
Camper
Super-Tinker

Wenger:
Standard Issue
Highlander
Advantage Timber Camo Highlander
Serrated Teton
Serrated Backpacker
Golf Pro
Alpine Backpacker
Trout

The results:
I'm extemely glad to say that none of the knives suffered any GROSS OBVIOUS damage.

With the exception of one knife, they seem to work the same after the test as they did before the test.

The one knife that was affected is the Wenger Serrated Teton.
The springs, while still functional, seem noticeable weaker than they were before the test.

BTW, if anyone else decides to perform this same test, use a screwdriver to open the blades.
Because of the pressure on the backsprings it's very difficult to fan all of the blades, as my broken thumbnail has proven!
And it did hurt like a SOB at the time!

I quickly learned to open all of the blades completely and them carefully fan them half-way closed one at a time.
And I would advise opening the tools on the backside first.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
allenC said:
BTW, if anyone else decides to perform this same test, use a screwdriver to open the blades.
Because of the pressure on the backsprings it's very difficult to fan all of the blades, as my broken thumbnail has proven!
And it did hurt like a SOB at the time!
Click to expand...


thanks for the overall-impression Allen. i must agree with most points. here's some stuff i've discovered myself using SAK's (Victorinox only, 'Locksmith'):

- the more tools you open at the same time, the stiffer the action gets, yep!
- pulling out the reamer on the backside should be done carefully. this tool is by far the most vicious on your nail! it also has annoyingly hard tension
- the can-opener is almost better than a 'real' can-opener. it works great
- the saw is awesome: i sawed down one whole transport-pallet into pieces which i used the planks of to make my own coffee-table (no really!, and i screwed down the screws with the philips-head and flathead-driver to connect all beams together to create a table using fairly strong force)
- the philips-head driver should be used with care. it's not locked and it can move with a little resistance to the further side. keep a firm grip on this thing while using and make sure you hold it straight on the screw. once you let it slip sideways, you get hurt.
- the tweezers aren't that useful for removing splinters. they are too flat and wide and they are too weak to have a strong clamping action (i've learned that simply cutting out a splinter with the blade works better, and if it's exposed but firmly stabbed into your hand, a multitool's pliers work better)
- the toothpick works great for getting fruit-pits between your teeth, but the plastic wears down fast too. this thing should be tougher material.

some improvements i'd suggest to Victorinox:

-improve the reamer-opening
-make philips-head lockable
-on the models that have lockable blade and big flathead> make the saw lockable as well
-tougher toothpick
-improve tweezers or swap for mini-pliers

i recently gave my Vic Locksmith to my kid brother btw, he liked it so much, and i don't use it anymore anyway because i'm a multi-tool convert now :)

dennis
 
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