Unknown stone brand, type and use details.

[Tinman102000]

Howdy,
Newbie here to posting but I have been reading these threads for a long time. A huge wealth of knowledge heret and I crave learning.
On to my question. In the early 80's I worked for a beef processing company and we were allowed to take our knives home on Friday's to sharpen them IF we bought the combination stone through the knife room. They liked it because they didn't have to actually work. Well, after a few years ......o.k, 40 years, I found the stone and it say's "Packer 98087" on the side. Does anyone know the type and grits of the stone ? It is very similar to the Norton India combe stones I used to see in hardware stores. I want to clean it. The one thing I noticed is, when using it, whether with honing oil or mineral oil, the orange side gets black pretty quickly so it seems like it is a coarse stone and the gray side is even more so. I have a hunting knife my Grandpa made from a planer blade and elk horn back in the early 40's and I haven't really had to sharpen it a lot in all the years hunting but now it needs it and I don't want to mess it up on a bad / cheap stone. Thanks for all of the interesting posts and info.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I view it as a good thing if an oil stone blackens up quickly while sharpening on it. It means the abrasive grit is cutting the steel very efficiently. Even in medium or fine grit stones that produce a nice working edge on their own, the good ones will quickly blacken up like that. Norton's Fine India stone is a good example, being rated somewhere in the 320-360 grit range, maybe up to 400 or so when it's well broken-in. It's a very good stone for knives used in the kitchen with food like meats, vegetables, etc. And it will blacken up fast in use, so long as the abrasive surface isn't clogged or glazed (worn glassy-smooth). When that happens, the stone won't cut well anymore, which also means it WON'T blacken up in use. That's usually a sign of a stone that's not working well for the steel being sharpened. Stones that were used dry for a long time, but intended to be used with oil or water, will clog and/or glaze like that. The wetted surface, with oil or water, is what will help preserve the cutting action over time.

The stone you have might be pretty decent for use with a hunting knife. If that knife was made from a planer blade, it's likely a simple carbon steel (non-stainless), which will sharpen up easily and well on stones like Norton's Fine India. The India stones from Norton are made in aluminum oxide grit, which is well-suited for simple carbon steels and low-alloy stainless steels typically used in food tasks. And most of the 'India' look-alike combo stones will also be in aluminum oxide.

 

[Tinman102000]

I view it as a good thing if an oil stone blackens up quickly while sharpening on it. It means the abrasive grit is cutting the steel very efficiently. Even in medium or fine grit stones that produce a nice working edge on their own, the good ones will quickly blacken up like that. Norton's Fine India stone is a good example, being rated somewhere in the 320-360 grit range, maybe up to 400 or so when it's well broken-in. It's a very good stone for knives used in the kitchen with food like meats, vegetables, etc. And it will blacken up fast in use, so long as the abrasive surface isn't clogged or glazed (worn glassy-smooth). When that happens, the stone won't cut well anymore, which also means in WON'T blacken up in use. That's usually a sign of a stone that's not working well for the steel being sharpened. Stones that were used dry for a long time, but intended to be used with oil or water, will clog and/or glaze like that. The wetted surface, with oil or water, is what will help preserve the cutting action over time.

The stone you have might be pretty decent for use with a hunting knife. If that knife was made from a planer blade, it's likely a simple carbon steel (non-stainless), which will sharpen up easily and well on stones like Norton's Fine India. The India stones from Norton are made in aluminum oxide grit, which is well-suited for simple carbon steels and low-alloy stainless steels typically used in food tasks. And most of the 'India' look-alike combo stones will also be in aluminum oxide.

Is simple carbon steel brittle ? I'm asking because another knife made from that piece planer blade held an excellent edge also when skinning and such but, my father snapped it when he was younger, separating the hind quarters of an elk. He said there was no flex or anything it just snapped clean. I am leaning towards putting it away and buying a Silver Stag knife since the people there are great and they are just up the coast from me.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Is simple carbon steel brittle ? I'm asking because another knife made from that piece planer blade held an excellent edge also when skinning and such but, my father snapped it when he was younger, separating the hind quarters of an elk. He said there was no flex or anything it just snapped clean. I am leaning towards putting it away and buying a Silver Stag knife since the people there are great and they are just up the coast from me.

Brittleness would imply a heat treat or tempering issue with the blade. It was probably heat-treated too hard to be tough (resistant to breakage or chipping). Tempering after heat-treating is what takes the hardness back a bit, so the steel will remain tough enough to resist breakage, but still hard enough to take and hold a good, strong working edge. The stones I mentioned would still cut the steel easily, assuming it was simple carbon steel.

It sounds like the hunting knife your grandfather made might be worthy as an heirloom for you. If you're already considering buying another knife to use for hunting or whatever else, that might be the safer route to protect the knife you probably treasure.

 

[Tinman102000]

Brittleness would imply a heat treat or tempering issue with the blade. It was probably heat-treated too hard to be tough (resistant to breakage or chipping). Tempering after heat-treating is what takes the hardness back a bit, so the steel will remain tough enough to resist breakage, but still hard enough to take and hold a good, strong working edge. The stones I mentioned would still cut the steel easily, assuming it was simple carbon steel.

It sounds like the hunting knife your grandfather made might be worthy as an heirloom for you. If you're already considering buying another knife to use for hunting or whatever else, that might be the safer route to protect the knife you probably treasure.

Thank you for the great (understandable) info. Yes, it is coming up on 90 years old and he passed when I was 3, (I'm hitting 59 now) from black lung, (rail road engineer) and it is the only heirloom so to speak to pass on to my grandson. I have always been really worried about something happening to it. I decided last year, I wasn't going to gamble anymore with it. I would attach a picture of it but haven't figured out how to do it yet.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Thank you for the great (understandable) info. Yes, it is coming up on 90 years old and he passed when I was 3, (I'm hitting 59 now) from black lung, (rail road engineer) and it is the only heirloom so to speak to pass on to my grandson. I have always been really worried about something happening to it. I decided last year, I wasn't going to gamble anymore with it. I would attach a picture of it but haven't figured out how to do it yet.

You can upload photos in .jpg format to an image hosting site like imgur.com - it's free to join up. Once a photo is there, you can click on it and it'll show several options for linking it. Select the 'BBCode' format - it'll copy a properly formatted link that you can insert directly into your posts here, and it'll display the photo automatically in your post.

We're always glad to see pics here...

 

[DaveHS]

You can upload photos in .jpg format to an image hosting site like imgur.com - it's free to join up. Once a photo is there, you can click on it and it'll show several options for linking it. Select the 'BBCode' format - it'll copy a properly formatted link that you can insert directly into your posts here, and it'll display the photo automatically in your post.

We're always glad to see pics here...

Second that. I’d love to see photos.

 

[DaveHS]

Thank you for the great (understandable) info. Yes, it is coming up on 90 years old and he passed when I was 3, (I'm hitting 59 now) from black lung, (rail road engineer) and it is the only heirloom so to speak to pass on to my grandson. I have always been really worried about something happening to it. I decided last year, I wasn't going to gamble anymore with it. I would attach a picture of it but haven't figured out how to do it yet.

It’s even easier to add pics now. Assuming you have a phone camera, can do it directly from your phone. Just click the “Attach files” button in lower left and select Photo Library or Take Photo and voila!

 

[DaveHS]

I view it as a good thing if an oil stone blackens up quickly while sharpening on it. It means the abrasive grit is cutting the steel very efficiently. Even in medium or fine grit stones that produce a nice working edge on their own, the good ones will quickly blacken up like that. Norton's Fine India stone is a good example, being rated somewhere in the 320-360 grit range, maybe up to 400 or so when it's well broken-in. It's a very good stone for knives used in the kitchen with food like meats, vegetables, etc. And it will blacken up fast in use, so long as the abrasive surface isn't clogged or glazed (worn glassy-smooth). When that happens, the stone won't cut well anymore, which also means it WON'T blacken up in use. That's usually a sign of a stone that's not working well for the steel being sharpened. Stones that were used dry for a long time, but intended to be used with oil or water, will clog and/or glaze like that. The wetted surface, with oil or water, is what will help preserve the cutting action over time.

The stone you have might be pretty decent for use with a hunting knife. If that knife was made from a planer blade, it's likely a simple carbon steel (non-stainless), which will sharpen up easily and well on stones like Norton's Fine India. The India stones from Norton are made in aluminum oxide grit, which is well-suited for simple carbon steels and low-alloy stainless steels typically used in food tasks. And most of the 'India' look-alike combo stones will also be in aluminum oxide.

Thank YOU for the good information on using traditional stones. I am old Eagle Scout who learned on whetstones with oil, first from dad and grandfathers, then from my old scoutmaster who was a Mississippi hunter and WWII Army vet. I still sharpen my old carbon steel blades better on them than on the ceramic or diamond stones I have tried.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

It’s even easier to add pics now. Assuming you have a phone camera, can do it directly from your phone. Just click the “Attach files” button in lower left and select Photo Library or Take Photo and voila!

I need to try that out. For years, I've been adding pics from my laptop computer via Imgur's web platform. Haven't yet done it from my phone, though I've been tempted to occasionally, but didn't yet know how that works. Simpler would always be better, especially now that I'm getting older.

 

[DaveHS]

 

[DaveHS]

Photo example (mildly relevant to this thread because I have sharpened the red SAK on traditional Arkansas whetstone) to show off how fast it is directly off the phone ;-)

 

[Tinman102000]

You can upload photos in .jpg format to an image hosting site like imgur.com - it's free to join up. Once a photo is there, you can click on it and it'll show several options for linking it. Select the 'BBCode' format - it'll copy a properly formatted link that you can insert directly into your posts here, and it'll display the photo automatically in your post.

We're always glad to see pics here...

https://imgur.com/a/087vKZz

 

[Tinman102000]

https://imgur.com/a/087vKZz

Thanks Obsessed, it worked. This is a 90 year old 3rd gen. hunting knife. The blade was made by my Grandpa and is now a safe queen. The deer horn handle was replaced 40+ years ago by an elk horn handle by my father after the original one cracked. Has skinned and processed A LOT of mule and whitetail deer and Elk !

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Thanks Obsessed, it worked. This is a 90 year old 3rd gen. hunting knife. The blade was made by my Grandpa and is now a safe queen. The deer horn handle was replaced 40+ years ago by an elk horn handle by my father after the original one cracked. Has skinned and processed A LOT of mule and whitetail deer and Elk !

That's impressive. Great looking knife. And all the better with that very significant family history behind it.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

What a cool piece of history.