Unmatched scales

CUTS LIKE A KRIS

CUTS LIKE A KRIS

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Sep 28, 2005
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I am wondering what your personal opinions are on using unmatched scales. Personally I don't care for them if it is clearly a shade difference, or the figure is very different (curly on one side and straight grain on the other). I will allow some leeway for the natural variations that make natural handles so attractive, but see some scale choices that just have me scratching my head. Even if it is a very high price scale material (mammoth, ironwood) I feel it must match.

Collectors/ makers, what is your take on this?
 
Scales matching is not one of my prime considerations when considering buying a custom knife. I even get a little amused when dealers or makers proclaim "the scales are perfectly match", like its the knife's most important attribute.

Now to clarify, of course the scales need to be of the same material and generally carry on the look and theme of the knife. However, I rather the maker spent time on the design, execution, fit/finish, and giving me the best two pieces of handle material possible rather than digging through a massive box of stag or ivory scales to find the perfect match.

To go a little farther, I even like a little variation in shade and pattern from one side to the other. IMO it gives the piece more character and I like flipping a knife over and thinking WOW, rather than just more of the same.

Besides, I haven’t found a way to examine and compare both sides of the knife at once anyway unless it's displayed with a mirror backdrop. :D
 
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I like the scales to match to a certain degree. Pattern/grain differences are okay, as are slight differences in colour, but I don't like it when the scales look like they are totally mismatched.
 
I have made a couple hunting knives with stag that looked like a great match but after they were finished I realized they were from different animals and didnt have the same colors at all. I gave one knife away and took my grinder to the other for new scales. Now I buy a large stag roll and cut my own scales from it.
 
Sidetracking a little but still on the subject of "unmatched sides",
here is a truly amazing example of deliberately creating
completely different sides to a knife.
In their "Life and Death" dagger from 1997, Don Fogg and Jim Kelso
collaborated in creating life on one side and death on the other
both on the blade and on the handle.....

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)


From my book "... Custom Fixed-Blade Knives" (2005)
picture.JPG
 
I don't mind some minor variations, but I prefer the match to be close. The closer on the color the better, for me.
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
I am wondering what your personal opinions are on using unmatched scales. Personally I don't care for them if it is clearly a shade difference, or the figure is very different (curly on one side and straight grain on the other). I will allow some leeway for the natural variations that make natural handles so attractive, but see some scale choices that just have me scratching my head. Even if it is a very high price scale material (mammoth, ironwood) I feel it must match.

Collectors/ makers, what is your take on this?
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I am with about 95% of the way here. "Must" match puts the standard a little higher than I would, but I have a decided preference for matching scales as you have described - i.e. - allowances for natural variations, but generally matching in colour and figure.

The importance of this factor in my purchase decision increases with the price of the piece in question.

I would also suggest that while not universal, there is certainly a general expectation of similarity versus dissimilarity in handle material scales. Just cruise the blade show and look at the way scales are sold - the "book-matched" pairs command the highest price. And while I have perused many a dealer site in my time, I have yet to see a knife advertised as having a "great set of unmatched scales!". For this reason, matched scales will also generally be a safer bet from an investment standpoint.

And I have a hard time seeing where the selection of matched scales presents any greater demands on a maker's time. Selecting quality handle materials will always require a careful and thoughtful approach, and that is time VERY well spent by the maker, IMHO.

Now, the exception would be where the maker has made a clear choice to use very different scales for artistic / aesthetic reasons, such as in the terrific "Celtic Dichotomy" folder by Ed Schemp below:

standard.jpg


Roger
 
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In my opinion, matched scales represent the maker's dedication to, or opinion of perfection, insofar as he or she is able. There's a marked difference between 'good enough" and "the best I am capable of". Mismatched scales should be something the buyer or collector doesn't even have to consider, because the maker has made it a moot point by attention to the "the best I can be" as the piece was made. Anything less and you should pay less...... assuming you would even buy it.

It is also my opinion that "I did it on purpose for this or that reason" is also bull shit for the most part.

I have tossed a few sheaths because they did not meet MY standards, and I not only did not want to sell them, I didn't want them out there with my name on them.

Paul
 
I want the scales to be from the same piece of material. Beyond that, it all depends on the piece and on how the scales make the piece flow - or not.
 
betzner said:
I want the scales to be from the same piece of material. Beyond that, it all depends on the piece and on how the scales make the piece flow - or not.
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I agree Bob and Paul.
IMO, it shouldn't be so much about how close the scales match but more about the quality and how they contribute to the overall look and feel of the knife.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I like the scales to match to a certain degree. Pattern/grain differences are okay, as are slight differences in colour, but I don't like it when the scales look like they are totally mismatched.
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I agree with Keith's statement on this one. I looked through my collection to find examples of knives I enjoy that have natural material from the same beast but not mirror image scales. Here are two, a Crawford Triumph and Royer's Explosive Fighter.

Mismatched scales are unacceptable unless it is a design intent. Agree with Paul about the bull$hit. It's pretty transparent and a bit sad.

Hey Kevin, Some of Coop's pics can give a pretty good view of both sides of a knife at once :D

017.jpg


018.jpg


RoyerExplosiveFighter.jpg
 
r connally said:
I looked through my collection to find examples of knives I enjoy that have natural material from the same beast but not mirror image scales. Here are two, a Crawford Triumph and Royer's Explosive Fighter. [/IMG]
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Those certainly meet my concept of "matched" scales.

I don't perceive most of those expressing a preference for matched scales as requiring "exact", "perfect" or "mirror image" matching. These are natural materials, after all.

But the makers in your examples clearly took the time to select a set of scales that were sufficiently close to provide visual and tactile unity and continuity. Their thoughtfullness in this regard contributes to evident quality of the end product.

Roger
 
r connally said:
I agree with Keith's statement on this one. I looked through my collection to find examples of knives I enjoy that have natural material from the same beast but not mirror image scales. Here are two, a Crawford Triumph and Royer's Explosive Fighter.

Mismatched scales are unacceptable unless it is a design intent. Agree with Paul about the bull$hit. It's pretty transparent and a bit sad.

Hey Kevin, Some of Coop's pics can give a pretty good view of both sides of a knife at once :D
Click to expand...

Again, we are faced with the dilemma of a definition (what constitutes a match?) that unfortunately everyone's not going to agree on.

Your Royer is a very good example. I would consider the scales as matched, however other than sharing similar color the two sides are quite different.

It's also an example where both sides in being different complement one another.
It's what I was speaking of in my first post regarding looking at one side and being very impressed, however receiving a pleasant surprise upon turning it over.

Yes, Coop's and other's photos give very good representations of both sides, unfortunately we only get one primary view in hand.
 
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Bruce Bump said:
I have made a couple hunting knives with stag that looked like a great match but after they were finished I realized they were from different animals and didnt have the same colors at all. I gave one knife away and took my grinder to the other for new scales. Now I buy a large stag roll and cut my own scales from it.
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And when you cut your own scales, I take it you are striving for similarity between the resulting pieces to be used as a pair?

Roger
 
Here is an example of one with "non-matching" scales. The bone scales were purchased as a set, however, when I dyed them, they accepted the dye completely different.

Doesn't affect the knife's usability, just looks odd.

Robert

Damabone.jpg
 
RogerP said:
But the makers in your examples clearly took the time to select a set of scales that were sufficiently close to provide visual and tactile unity and continuity. Their thoughtfullness in this regard contributes to evident quality of the end product.

Roger
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This was the point of my post expressed differently, but exactly what I had in mind.

Paul
 
Believe we are all in violent agreement. Mirror image scales not the definition of matching and we can spot quality vs excuses fairly easily. Actually turned into a fairly interesting thread.
 
Rob, its funny because I would consider that crawford to have perfectly matched scales. Every handle scale of natural material will look a little different but in the case of Mammoth tooth they usually look pretty identical, aside from the differences in texture. On the Royer, the scales have different amounts of color but its the same color so its a match (IMO).

I will now contradict myself. I actually rarely think that scales that "match perfectly" really match. Since there is always a variation with natural handle material nothing can be perfect so I hate the terms "perfectly matched'. I think a maker should use peices from the same area of a tusk and they should match in color. You will always get differences in grain.
 
RogerP said:
And when you cut your own scales, I take it you are striving for similarity between the resulting pieces to be used as a pair?

Roger
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Yes. Most stag dealers sell scales that they match up from a barrel full of scales. This bugs me to no end because they look good when you buy them but when the sanding and polishing is finished ya realize they are from different animals. It is the inside colors that dont match. :mad:
 
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