up and down blade play?Pictures added

Is this the one I just sent you? Not to sound like I'm defending my trade but if so, I didn't notice any lock rock or blade play at all. Did you tighten down the pivot bushing all the way?
 
The oxide layer on the lock face is very hard but also very thin, it is possible to wear though it into the Ti. This on its own should not cause probelms with the lock up though.
 
There seems to be a misunderstanding between lock rock and blade roll related to locks.

Could you please explain what you mean by the term lock roll?

Lock roll and blade roll have two different cause and affect and there are two main problems associated with each one.
 
neverdie36 said:
Is this the one I just sent you? Not to sound like I'm defending my trade but if so, I didn't notice any lock rock or blade play at all. Did you tighten down the pivot bushing all the way?
Click to expand...

it is but Im 100% with our trade. Im positive chris will fix the issue with no questions. I have done every trick I know to fix the up down play but it wont go away. Its definately not much but compared to my other sebenza its definately there.

I dont want you to feel like Im not happy. I am perfectly satisfied. The way I look at it most of my other knives have this amount of blade play and Im satisfied with them, but knowing Chris's tolerance I will be sending it to him for a tune up which I planned to do anyways.
 
what is lock roll? I dont have that posted in the OP unless someone said it and then edited there post, I dont see anyone saying "lock roll". But now that I have thought of it I would'nt consider it lock rock either its more like lock flex if that makes sense. Either way my other sebenza which is the newer model doesnt have that same feel. Its solid as a rock. This new to me one has a little wiggle. Its very hard to explain. :confused:

marthinus said:
There seems to be a misunderstanding between lock rock and blade roll related to locks.

Could you please explain what you mean by the term lock roll?

Lock roll and blade roll have two different cause and affect and there are two main problems associated with each one.
Click to expand...
 
You wouldn't happen to have pictures so we can see what you are talking about do you?
 
onlooker96 said:
You wouldn't happen to have pictures so we can see what you are talking about do you?
Click to expand...

I might be able to take some pictures late tonight. its very hard to capture what Im talking about with a crappy camera but Ill try.
 
Wolf

My aplologies, lock roll should have been lock rock as you posted.

Here is a post I did explaining some terminology and design
Zenith said:
CRK actually heat treats the lock face. Strider, Hinderer I know of uses a carbidizer (spelling?).

Here is a post I did recently

"There are a few things I want to cover, based on my talking with custom makers and reading Bob Terzuola's book: The Tactical Folding Knife (hereafter BT), where he explains in detail the aspects of a good liner lock and the same principles are applied to framelocks.

Three points of contact:
1. Stop pin
2. Pivot pin
3. Interface between blade and spring (ie, lockface/lock engagement area hereafter referred to LF) Spring is also the liner lock, framelock.

This forms a triangle.

Now, the LF is the area lets focus on first.

BT. refers to the angle of the lock face to be between 7.5 and 8.5 degrees. Les then 5 degrees and the spring will jam. More then 10 degrees and the spring will start slipping off the LF.

Now the start of a radius lock face, the maximum therefore cannot exceed 10 degrees or else the lock will start slipping when the lock wears to that point. As mentioned as lock roll in the video when referring to the Strider.

Now.

Do not thing the angle plays the only role in the lock slipping. The finished LF can have a rough spot, not be polished enough, the spring's interface between the LF can also play a role.

Let us examine this from the Emerson website.

http://www.emersonknives.com/ekKnifeAnatomy.php

If the LF connected to the spring more in the middle or at the top of the spring where the detent is on most (point nr 3 closer to the pivot pin nr 2) then you would experience blade roll. This is when you have vertical type play but what happens is the blade actually rolls on the spring because the spring connects in the wrong place with the LF.

The picture shows the extremes of the different designs, you can have a lock that engages more then the bottom 0.90-.125" of the spring. Chris Reeve has proven this, but, you can also have a knife that engages only on that bottom 0.90" (point of contact in the picture)

Not every lock is the same. The basic ingredients are the same, but the final application is what the maker chooses. This can be seen even with Spyderco difference between the Military and the Gayle Bradly.

Now that is just the geometry of the lock.

The spring itself if it is Titanium can be heat treated or carbonized. Strider and Hinderer do the latter. This helps tremendously with wear on titanium and if done right will last you a life time. CRK and a few custom makers that I have do Heat Treating of the lock. Wear is about nun and equal to (if) steel was used.

HOWEVER. Titanium is NOT PERFECT and it can have flaws in it when received from the supplier. EVEN aerospace titanium (grade 5 titanium). These flaws only become apparent when it is used and is sometimes not even noticeable until it begins to form a problem. This is where a good warranty comes into play.

Steel used as a liner is not always the answer as well. Different steel interfaces can result in slipping. Steel on steel requires a lot of research to find what can be used and heat treated as a spring and still provide excellent wear resistance and safety.

Finally, lockup percentage is a strange thing and depends on the final user. I prefer later lockup as it usually means less chance of slipping off the LF.

I hope this helped you in some way."

At the end, if you either use Ti or Steel, the LF geometry is key.

I have Ti lock custom that I have flicked vigorously, the maker asked me to test the lock face.

Here is a video towards the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgNHmH1A7QQ&list=UUDVjLbnj847m0n9oQa16eHQ&index=1&feature=plcp

Start watching from 2.27 minutes.

BT also writes in his book there is no significance between steel and Ti if done right. A Sebenza will wear for a while and then stop. Most quality locks do this. Chris Reeve also wants a later lockup as he feels it provides a safer lock and less chance of slipping. I tend to agree. Besides. If any quality product wears out so fast, they should cover it under warrenty.

I have seen a 18 year old Sebenza. No issues. I have a Military with the steel insert. No issues. Both locks apply different end results, but the basics are the same resulting in great locks that can last you a live time.

BT also feels that the strength to weight ratio of Titanium is excellent compared to steel.
Click to expand...
 
neverdie36 said:
I still have a picture of the lockup.
Click to expand...

lock up is the same as in this picture but im talking about the lock face where the carburization is (ive been told its just a heated lock face not carburization).ill get some pics up when i can. Thanks though.
 
Last edited:
lockup3.jpg


ok guys/gals this is the best picture I could get of the lock face.
 
That area where the flaking is taking place is right where the corner of the blade runs over the edge of the lock to engage. It happened to my Insingo as well after falling 3m from where I was working.

It should not be a problem, however WE here on the forums are not Sebenza doctors and if it bothers you send it in to the correct specialist. That way you will get a good answer and get a solution to any problems.
 
marthinus said:
That area where the flaking is taking place is right where the corner of the blade runs over the edge of the lock to engage. It happened to my Insingo as well after falling 3m from where I was working.

It should not be a problem, however WE here on the forums are not Sebenza doctors and if it bothers you send it in to the correct specialist. That way you will get a good answer and get a solution to any problems.
Click to expand...

So your saying Chris was able to fix your insingo or you just let it be?
Ive actually contacted them and they asked me to post a picture in this thread for them to see as well. Im pretty confident in them that they'll be able to fix it, but I'm still waiting on the reply to know for sure.
 
wolf5391 said:
So your saying Chris was able to fix your insingo or you just let it be?
Ive actually contacted them and they asked me to post a picture in this thread for them to see as well. Im pretty confident in them that they'll be able to fix it, but I'm still waiting on the reply to know for sure.
Click to expand...

I just let it be. Living in South Africa the forwards and backwards postage insured gets expensive. Still no blade play, no wear and I have a series of pictures over months that I took. No wear.

Here is what happened

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/759360-My-heart-sank-as-I-saw

Here is updated pictures:

PA140022-1.jpg

PA140020-1.jpg

PA140031.jpg

PA140023.jpg


At the end, I am sure CRK will take care of you and please keep us updated.
 
This flaking off can happen and is not rare. CRK can and will fix this under warranty. I had a similar issue several years ago with a small sebenza I got off feebay. It was assembled incorrectly causing a pinched washer. The previous owner continued to use it. The lockbar face began to wear abnormally and flake just like yours. I sent it, they re-heat treated the lock and it was good as new, all under warranty because their lifetime warranty follows the knife, not the original owner only. CRK warranty service is second to none, BUT you must let THEM fix it. Any tampering and do-it-yourself fixing can and will void the warranty..........They heat treat the lock by heating it with a torch until nearly red hot and then allowed to cool. This produces a carbonized super hard surface that is renewable should it wear or flake off.
Kind of like burning a marshmellow.....lol.

My advise, send it in and get it fixed by the pros, that way it will be good as new with no worries.

Enjoy...!
 
nyefmaker said:
This flaking off can happen and is not rare. CRK can and will fix this under warranty. I had a similar issue several years ago with a small sebenza I got off feebay. It was assembled incorrectly causing a pinched washer. The previous owner continued to use it. The lockbar face began to wear abnormally and flake just like yours. I sent it, they re-heat treated the lock and it was good as new, all under warranty because their lifetime warranty follows the knife, not the original owner only. CRK warranty service is second to none, BUT you must let THEM fix it. Any tampering and do-it-yourself fixing can and will void the warranty..........They heat treat the lock by heating it with a torch until nearly red hot and then allowed to cool. This produces a carbonized super hard surface that is renewable should it wear or flake off.
Kind of like burning a marshmellow.....lol.

My advise, send it in and get it fixed by the pros, that way it will be good as new with no worries.

Enjoy...!
Click to expand...

thanks, im glad to hear it can be fixed. I will send it out next week when I get some time and ill update you guys when I get it back.
 
WOW i was looking for a thread on this and found exactly what i wanted. i have taken apart my sebenza after experiencing the same exaact lock rock and i saw the EXACT same flaking you have. its great to know that it can be fixed cause ill tell ya, it bugs the S*** outa me. thanx for the input yall
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top