Up/Down blade play Dragonfly ZDP-189

sjhong

sjhong

Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
299
I love the design of the Dragonfly, which I consider the perfect urban EDC. This is my second, the first one being a G10 model.

I was excited to have one of my favorite EDCs in such a premium steel, but I noticed that it has some vertical blade play. It's not much, but it's there, and I can feel it even when cutting soft materials, like cheese.

I sent it to Spyderco, but they sent it back to me, stating that they tested the knife and that it passes all tolerance levels set by Manufacturing and Quality Control Teams. This disappoints me a little, given that my other Spydercos (my G10 Dragonfly, my Ladybug and the PM2) never had vertical blade play.

Do you guys experience this vertical blade play with the Dragonfly ZDP-189?
 
Do you have video of the blade play? I think that would be helpful.

I understand the frustration with warranty returns. I am currently sending back a knife from a different company because the replacement blade had a different issue.

Spyderco is an awesome company. If you aren't satisfied, maybe a call would get you right.
 
kmboldon said:
Do you have video of the blade play? I think that would be helpful.

I understand the frustration with warranty returns. I am currently sending back a knife from a different company because the replacement blade had a different issue.

Spyderco is an awesome company. If you aren't satisfied, maybe a call would get you right.
Click to expand...

To be honest, the play is too small to be seen on video. It's more something I feel in my hands when I'm cutting stuff with it. If I wiggle it with my hands near my ears, I can also hear a clicking noise, which could be the blade tang against the lock back or the pivot against the FRN handles.
 
I have an H1 Dragonfly here with zero up and down play. But if Spyderco says your wiggle is within spec, it probably is. And it really doesn't harm anything except you (our) state of mind.
 
You can do a simple self fix to eliminate the play .
I did a blade swap with my Delica's and after the swap one of them had some up and down play . Blade swaps don't always work out perfectly and although it wasn't much it still annoyed the heck out of me .
Because I had swapped blades asking Spyderco to fix it was out of the question .
With a small cold chisel I deformed the front edge of the lockbar to fractionally lengthen it and take out any play .
It worked perfectly and has done a lot of work without loosening up again .
Here is a pic I just took , my camera and my skills don't really show it as well as i hoped but it might give you an idea of what I'm talking about .
hopefully you can see the small area that the chisel deformed . I have tried to enhance the photo to make it more visible , but in real life you can hardly see it .
It only takes the minutest lengthening of the lockbar to achieve results so don't over do it with the chisel or punch .
I did this to both sides of the lockbar .



Ken
 
^ Nice work Ken! I believe that is called peening the lockbar. It is done on many production lockbacks.
Just curious, did you have to sand the sides after hitting it with the chisel?
 
SpeedHoles said:
^ Nice work Ken! I believe that is called peening the lockbar. It is done on many production lockbacks.
Just curious, did you have to sand the sides after hitting it with the chisel?
Click to expand...

No sanding or polishing .
I did the peening ( I didn't know it was called that ) with the knife still assembled .
I ended up striking the lockbar twice on each side ( but each strike in the same spot )to achieve perfect lockup , after each strike of the hammer I tested the results and each time you could feel a difference until after four strikes it was perfect .
As I mentioned it doesn't take much deforming to have a big effect so I thought lighter strikes of the hammer were the best way to go . The lockbar steel is actually quite easy to mark so it's not overly hard as steels go .
I was worried that the fix would wear over time but so far there is no movement and this knife has been carried a lot and opened and closed probably thousands of times .
Maybe flicking it open might cause wear , but I'm not a flicker of knives and I just open it in the normal thumbing open action .

Ken
 
Good job. Your suggestion is basically increasing the reach of the lock bar by fractions of 1 mm to make for a better contact with the tang. To test it out, I tried locking the knife with a thin peace of paper between the tang and the lock bar (achieving the same result, I imagine). The wiggle is still there, which leads me to conclude that the excess of tolerance is in the pivot area and not between the tang and the lock bar.

Probably nothing that's going to have any effect in the cutting ability of this knife.

harronek said:
You can do a simple self fix to eliminate the play .
I did a blade swap with my Delica's and after the swap one of them had some up and down play . Blade swaps don't always work out perfectly and although it wasn't much it still annoyed the heck out of me .
Because I had swapped blades asking Spyderco to fix it was out of the question .
With a small cold chisel I deformed the front edge of the lockbar to fractionally lengthen it and take out any play .
It worked perfectly and has done a lot of work without loosening up again .
Here is a pic I just took , my camera and my skills don't really show it as well as i hoped but it might give you an idea of what I'm talking about .
hopefully you can see the small area that the chisel deformed . I have tried to enhance the photo to make it more visible , but in real life you can hardly see it .
It only takes the minutest lengthening of the lockbar to achieve results so don't over do it with the chisel or punch .
I did this to both sides of the lockbar .



Ken
Click to expand...
 
sjhong said:
Good job. Your suggestion is basically increasing the reach of the lock bar by fractions of 1 mm to make for a better contact with the tang. To test it out, I tried locking the knife with a thin peace of paper between the tang and the lock bar (achieving the same result, I imagine). The wiggle is still there, which leads me to conclude that the excess of tolerance is in the pivot area and not between the tang and the lock bar.

Probably nothing that's going to have any effect in the cutting ability of this knife.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest using something other than paper to do your test , paper is to soft and springy
Get an old alloy Coke can or similar and cut a thin strip that you can use instead of paper , one layer is probably even to thick but if the knife won't close beat it to thin it out until it will only just close with a fraction of force .
If that tightens it up noticibly then I'm sure my quick fix suggestion will work , the alloy of the Coke Can is soft in comparison with the steel in the knifes lockbar and blade so even it won't give a true indication , but it will a lot better than paper .
You need something solid in between the two surfaces to perform that test .
Some " Seki Rock " doesn't hurt performance , but it is an annoyance that just nags at your brain :)
Good luck , I love my DF2 and carry it often , but I did alter the blade shape fractionally and put a longer pocket clip on it to personalise it to myself .

Ken
 
A certain amount of lock rock is always present and percieved lock rock appears to be subjective. I have dozens of Spyderco backlocks and I can wiggle all of them enough to feel some play. On the other hand there are many people who claim to have had many backlocks and never had one with play in it. I find it hard to believe that I am just that unlucky so something else must be going on. If you want a Spyderco backlock with as close to zero play as it gets then I would recommend a Sage4, Chaparral or Native5. The Sage4 and Chaparral use an internal stop pin in addition to the backlock to achieve tighter lockup. The Native5 has a redesigned backlock that relies on modern manufacturing techniques and extremely tight manufacturing tolerances to achieve really tight lockup. The Chaparral is about the same size as the Dragonfly and I prefer it. I have come to accept the play in my Japanese Spydies as long as I cannot feel it during use. Unfortunately I can feel it during use on a few of them and thus they sit in the drawer more than others.
 
Good peening video from our own STR:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ_alRnX324
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HeXhWAqwqCQ

Darby,

I had one Endura that has this issue, but bought it used.
The rest of my lockbacks (3 Enduras, 1 Pac Salt & previously 2 Cara Cara2) have zero up-down play when wiggled using hand.
Using them, however, I can feel some has the blade moved against the lockbar if pressed hard (i.e. tough cut). I take it as normal, unless a stop pin installed (beyond my ability) such as shown here: https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?t=43214&start=2080
 
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Yeah, I think I just have bear paws or something. When this comes up there are always people who can feel it in every knife and those who can't feel it in any. If I can feel the play while cutting I can 100% feel it with my hand. This just seems to be subjective.

Both my Caly3 SB and my Caly3.5 SB were peened like that from the factory.
 
Yeah, perception of blade play seems to be subjective at times, although one would have to be deaf not to hear the clicking noise in my Dragonfly. Thanks for the tip on the Chaparral. I tend to prefer smaller folding knives and those that allow a four finger grip are on the top of my list.

After the replies I got here I've already accepted that the blade play on my knife is within acceptable tolerances.

I'll try not to let it bother me too much.

bearfacedkiller said:
A certain amount of lock rock is always present and percieved lock rock appears to be subjective. I have dozens of Spyderco backlocks and I can wiggle all of them enough to feel some play. On the other hand there are many people who claim to have had many backlocks and never had one with play in it. I find it hard to believe that I am just that unlucky so something else must be going on. If you want a Spyderco backlock with as close to zero play as it gets then I would recommend a Sage4, Chaparral or Native5. The Sage4 and Chaparral use an internal stop pin in addition to the backlock to achieve tighter lockup. The Native5 has a redesigned backlock that relies on modern manufacturing techniques and extremely tight manufacturing tolerances to achieve really tight lockup. The Chaparral is about the same size as the Dragonfly and I prefer it. I have come to accept the play in my Japanese Spydies as long as I cannot feel it during use. Unfortunately I can feel it during use on a few of them and thus they sit in the drawer more than others.
Click to expand...
 
I've had 4 HAP40 dragonflys and they have all had it. My black VG10 dragonfly has it. Both my VG10 and HAP40 delicas have it. The only back lock I've had that didn't have it was a G10 dragonfly. Guess I'm one of those who can feel it on every knife.
 
ejames13 said:
I've had 4 HAP40 dragonflys and they have all had it. My black VG10 dragonfly has it. Both my VG10 and HAP40 delicas have it. The only back lock I've had that didn't have it was a G10 dragonfly. Guess I'm one of those who can feel it on every knife.
Click to expand...

I can feel it on the majority of mine. Once I searched and found out why they do it I didn't let it bother me anymore.
 
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