Update / Review on my Recluse (Warning: Long)

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Some of you may remember a thread I posted titled "A Flaw in the Heat Treat? Or Something Else?" a while ago. If not, you can probably find it a few pages back on this forum. Basically, my production Recluse had suffered severe edge damage while doing basic carving that was beyond my own repair skills. I was told that it was because the blade had been ground too thinly, and I was instructed to send it back to BRKT to be fixed.

Well, I did just that, and last week I FINALLY got my knife back - over a month later. I have no idea what took so long, but it's here now. So as promised, I'll update you guys and write up a quick review.

I'm going to apologize in advance, particularly to Andy Roy, that this will not be an overly favorable review. I hate to write anything negative on a topic that people feel strongly about (Fiddleback knives, in this case), but I promised I would get back to you guys. I do not intend for any of this to sound insulting. Everything written is just my personal opinions and observations.

So without further ado...
 
Initial Thoughts:

Upon receiving the knife, I noticed it has in fact been ENTIRELY reground. Right from the spine to the edge. This was a good sign! They even stamped a new Fiddleback logo on to the blade since the old one was ground off. Except... it wasn't actually. A big chunk of the old logo is still visible near the spine. It looks pretty tacky having two logos on the blade, if you ask me. I wish they would have removed the old logo completely, so my knife would at least look new. Seems like a lack of attention to detail for whoever ground the knife (if I have time I will take a pic of this and edit it in). Oh well, moving on.

Edge Geometry, Sharpness, Etc:

The new edge was noticeably duller than the original edge. Understandable, as the original was so thin that freakin' wood had bent it. But this new edge struggled to even cut through paper. I assumed this was because of the (hopefully) steeper convex grind - toughness over sharpness, right? This still bothered me, though, because despite the steep angle, it could have easily been sharper. I've seen much thicker knives re-profiled with THICK convex edges (ESEE-5, BK-2, etc) that were significantly sharper than my relatively thin Recluse. So I don't really know what happened here. I'm personally not the best at hand sharpening, so whenever I get a knife sharpened professionally, I'm always very excited to see the new cutting performance. I was disappointed with my Recluse's edge, to say the least. I could have gotten it sharper myself using sand paper and a strop, despite my poor sharpening skills.

The Meat of Any Review; Performance:

I'm very heavily into winter activities such as camping, backpacking, and hiking. I love the snow, I love the solitude winter provides (nobody else wants to camp in our windy -30c Canadian mountains!), and I love the challenges. So I was fortunately able to take my Recluse out on a couple trips immediately after receiving it, despite the frigid temperatures outside. Here's how it did.

First, a quickie hunting trip with my best friend's father (is it weird that I hang out with him more than his daughter, who I've been friends with since fifth grade?). I unfortunately did not bring my camera for this trip, as my girlfriend works as a veterinarian and hates it when I kill animals. A match made in heaven, no doubt - a vet and a hunter! Anyway, because of this I make sure there's no photo evidence of any hunting I do for my girlfriend to see. So no pics here, guys, just a write up. Sorry!

Hunting Tasks:

I didn't have any luck that day (no ethical shots), but my hunting partner did get a handsome Buck. He was nice enough to let me field dress it with my "new" knife. The Recluse did pretty well skinning; the continuously up swept blade works well for slicing tasks, and the length is right on spot. The handle is also very comfortable for this task. It of course would have been MUCH better with a sharper edge, but I wont hold that against the knife because I knew going in to this it wasn't very sharp.

Removing meat from the Deer, on the other hand, proved to be very annoying with this knife. The point on the production Recluse is VERY sharp. Excessively sharp, in fact. It makes it very easy to accidently pierce too far into the animal and make a mess of things. I was startled while removing the back meat when my blade accidently pierced into the chest cavity, expelling gas out. Guys who field dress their kills know what I mean by a knife's tip being "too sharp". I also found the handle to be pretty uncomfortable while removing meat; the handle slabs should be tapered towards the blade for when your thumb is resting on them, to form a nice ramp. These ones have a sharp angle there. Not very good.

I don't have much else to say about that. It's a relatively good skinner, but that's about it. I do not recommend the Recluse for hunting.

So I'll move right on to my second outing with the knife, a quick overnight camp out in the mountains (and Christmas Tree harvesting, but we wont talk about that!). This trip has some pics for you guys. I will also mentioned that before this trip I sharpened the Recluse on my strop until it was sharp enough to take the odd hair on my arm off. Not shaving sharp, but as close as I can get it with my own abilities.


Bushcraft Tasks:

I don't hunt much, and when I do it's usually just rabbit or grouse, so I don't have a need for dedicated hunting knives. Instead, my knives primary purpose will always be bushcraft. I purchased the Recluse with this in mind.

lakew.jpg


Upon reaching the camping site - some flats between a cliff and a frozen lake - I decided I would use my knife and axe to make fire. I've never started a fire by friction during the winter, so why not give it a shot?

toolst.jpg


One of the tasks my knives must be able to do is baton wood. I use my axe to split anything bigger than a few inches, but for smaller logs it's much easier (and safer) to split wood with a knife. I'm happy to report that the Recluse performed BEAUTIFULLY batoning wood. The new steep edge geometry is perfect for this. I put it through several knots with no complaints, no edge damage, nothing. Fantastic!

baton1.jpg


baton2.jpg


Despite being pretty sharp now, it only did okay creating fuzz-sticks, nothing to write home about. It got the job done, but not without some effort. I have better luck during this sort of task with a scandi knife.

So I now have a board, some tinder, some kindling, and am ready to get my bow drill going. I sent my girlfriend out to find me a bow and a pivot rock while I got the board ready. I began by drilling a small divot into the board, and encountered a major problem.

Remember that too-sharp tip? Yeah, I bent it to a freakin' 90 degree angle while trying to drill into the wood. Catastrophic failure, as far as I am concerned. I ground off the bent portion and did my best to make it look normal when I got home, but it's just not the same. I am still pretty pissed off about this. I think it's a major design flaw having a tip that sharp. It serves no purpose as far as I can tell. It's not good for hunting, it's not good for bushcraft, it's not good for anything. Unless you want to stab through somebodies thick motorcycle leather, I guess?

So I retired the knife and just sparked the fire with my firesteel and some cotton, disappointed. I used my Griptilian and my Axe for the rest of that trip.

I used the knife one last time when I got home, shaping the top of our new Christmas Tree so it would be thin enough to accept a star. Pretty light duty carving task; the same as making a spear, basically. However, after doing this, the knife was DULL. Like, REALLY dull. I was dumbfounded. Batoning wood didn't even effect the edge like this.

And now I can't seem to get a good edge back on the knife. I mentioned earlier that I have poor sharpening skills, but normally I can at the very least get it sharp enough to be useful. This is not the current case. I can't even get it sharp enough to cut paper. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I think either the new steep grind or the steel is what is preventing me from sharpening it again. After my hunting trip it was still somewhat sharp, so I could simply use my leather strop to get it going again. But this time, it's too dull for my strop to have any effect on it, and I have to use sandpaper. It just ain't working for me. I don't know if this is my fault or the knives, but in my experience the Recluse is very difficult to sharpen. Your mileage may vary.

Summary:

I am not pleased with the production Recluse. My experiences with it have been mostly negative. If you are interested in getting this knife, I recommend getting the real one as made by Andy Roy. The BRKT variation does not live up to the Fiddleback reputation.

Out of the box, the knife failed while carving. After waiting a very long time for it to be reprofiled, it still failed (the tip, this time) and now has a dull edge that is very difficult to sharpen. I should also mention once again that BRKT failed to make it look like "new" after reprofiling it, because I now have two logos on my blade. I will also reiterate that the knife is a decent skinner, but overall not suitable for hunting due to the somewhat lacking handle and extremely sharp tip.

On a good note, the new grind is extremely tough, as proven by my batoning test. So +1 for the Recluse there. I went through a lot of wood with that thing, and saw no signs of trouble on the edge. It seems like I went from one extreme to the other with this knife when I had it reground. Too thin to too thick.

Arbitrary Overall Rating: 3/10. For me, this knife is prettier than it is useful. At a price point of over $200, I do not think it's a "good" purchase. It would rank a lot higher had I payed less money for it. But as it stands, I can't figure out what the production recluse excels at. It is not a bushcraft knife, and it is not a hunting knife. It's a good slicer, though, so maybe it would do well in a kitchen setting? I don't know.

Remember, this is all just the opinion of one man. Let's try and keep things civil. I do not wish to offend anyone. Criticism is more than welcome.
 
Aw man, that really sucks. I'm sorry to hear about all your negative experiences and I know how you feel - I want my knives to perform or I don't want them.

I don't know what to tell you other than maybe you should sell it, recoup some of your money and look for a different knife. :(
 
I think you were as civil as any review I've read. I have had incredible success with the customs Andy has made as well as the numerous bark rivers I've owned. Not sure what resolution you want, if any, but as you mentioned, the customs Andy makes are tough as nails. I have used them in winter camping and they performed admirably. Look into it.
 
Aw man, that really sucks. I'm sorry to hear about all your negative experiences and I know how you feel - I want my knives to perform or I don't want them.

I don't know what to tell you other than maybe you should sell it, recoup some of your money and look for a different knife. :(

I'm thinking about selling it or trading it, but finding someone interested might be hard unless I pretend that the knife is fine, which I wont do. The last thing I want is that this knife disappoint another person.

I'm going to give it a few more tries in the woods once I figure out how to get an edge on it and clean up the broken tip a bit more. Then I'll decide what I want to do. A friend of mine suggested sending it back to BRKT to be fixed again. Eh, forget that. It should have been functional the first time it left their factory.

The other Bark River knives that I've handled have seemed pretty good. I really don't know what happened with this one :( I wasn't even particularly hard on it -- I've broken knives before, so I have a general understanding of what a knife can and can not do. I went pretty easy on the Recluse. But man, I almost wanted to just leave this blade at the lake when I saw the tip bend over completely just a few days after it had been reprofiled to be "stronger"...

I'm really interested to hear from other Recluse owners on their experiences with the knife. The main problem with mine has been the grind, so that might be just bad luck. The tip issue, on the other hand, I believe to be a design flaw that will be found in other Recluses. Thoughts?
 
i'm sorry you've had so many issues with your recluse. I've had mine since they have come out and have not had any of the issues that you have, i've batoned drilled and carved with it. used it in the kitchen real preformer there.
maybe you did just get a lemon.
i don't know what to tell you to do other then either contact bark river again, or maybe knivesshipfree. i've have rolled a few edges on a few barkies, even had my golok chip out. The rolls i could fix, the golok i sent in and have used it with no issues since then. best of luck
 
Just my suggestion is to send it back to BRKT I mean you said you were going to retire it, so if you have to wait another month then so be it what have you got to lose. I feel badly for you, sounds like you got a lemon here and it happens. I mean I bleed Ford blue and I got a 99 Ranger that was a lemon of all lemons. Ford made it right and I have purchased nothing else since, but it did take me about 4 months to prove it was a lemon. So that is what I would do with BRKT, prove to them that it is a lemon and maybe they will make it right some how.
 
I'm another production recluse owner and it has the same problem. I used it for the first time for field dressing a moose and after I was done, the edge had micro chips everywhere. A few days after, we got another moose and this time used my ladyfinger (scandi grind). The edge had absolutely no damage at all, I could still shave arm hair with it after. Unfortunatly, I don't have any pictures to prove the chipping on the recluse, I sharpenned it with my belt sander when I got home and I never thought of taking pictures before:confused:
I own many knives, but it's the first time that happened to me on a field dressing task.

Here's a few pics (veterinarian do not look please :p)

View attachment 188817

View attachment 188818

View attachment 188819

I'm the guy with the blue shirt bottom right
 
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IMO, what you got here is a lemon. If it is not immediately replaced or refunded, then please call me. I feel horrible, even though I didn't make this knife, that a knife with my brand name on it has disapointed you so much.

404-519-2787

Maybe something from me can get a better rating.
 
Listen, firstly, I'm very sorry you had this experience. No apology necessary for the writeup being honest.

Second, I'd like to point out that IMO, this knife is a lemon. Is it bad steel, or bad HT, or bad grind, or some combo, I don't know. But I don't think you can make sweeping conclusions about a knife design based on a lemon. Certainly, the performance of this knife is not going to give the same results as a correctly made one.

Some of the issues you had are design related, so I'll respond to those personally. I don't make handles that ramp down to the blade. So that part of your unhappyness is my own fault. I try to make the handle versatile enough that you don't need to put your fingers onto the steel, but keep them on the handle.

The Recluse is a 4" drop point blade. It is designed to be used for hunting and bushcrafting. Its what I use for both being one of the two of my knives that I own. I've also used mine in the kitchen, and its good there too. I just think you got a dud, and it upsets me, believe me.

I personally, grind my knives thin, for cutting power. If someone said to me that they were rough user, and wanted the grind thicker, I'd do that for them, and they'd need to expect reduced cutting power. (THe edge should not dull quickly though. What the hell?) The BUK I had from J. Neilson was ground like a scalpel!!!!! I've been learning to grind thin knives for my entire career. Chasing mastersmiths. Cutlery that cuts.

I don't want to change to thick blunt grinds guys. If this ever happens to any knife I make, I will replace the knife. No repairing defective bladed knives for me. This is in the warranty, which is a no risk warranty for your protection.

NC, please give me a call when you can.




Hunting Tasks:

I also found the handle to be pretty uncomfortable while removing meat; the handle slabs should be tapered towards the blade for when your thumb is resting on them, to form a nice ramp. These ones have a sharp angle there. Not very good.

...

It serves no purpose as far as I can tell. It's not good for hunting, it's not good for bushcraft, it's not good for anything. Unless you want to stab through somebodies thick motorcycle leather, I guess?

sharpen. I should also mention once again that BRKT failed to make it look like "new" after reprofiling it, because I now have two logos on my blade. I will also reiterate that the knife is a decent skinner, but overall not suitable for hunting due to the somewhat lacking handle and extremely sharp tip.

On a good note, the new grind is extremely tough, as proven by my batoning test. So +1 for the Recluse there. I went through a lot of wood with that

...

(On the grind) Too thin to too thick.

But as it stands, I can't figure out what the production recluse excels at. It is not a bushcraft knife, and it is not a hunting knife. It's a good slicer, though, so maybe it would do well in a kitchen setting? I don't know.

 
That burlap lady shure is sweet. :0)

Andys work is awsome and then some. This years elkhunt I worked on five elks and split som wood with a Fiddleback bushcraft and could still shave hair. After this experience, O1 from Andy is all I'll ever need.
 
That burlap lady shure is sweet. :0)

Andys work is awsome and then some. This years elkhunt I worked on five elks and split som wood with a Fiddleback bushcraft and could still shave hair. After this experience, O1 from Andy is all I'll ever need.

THanks man. 01 is good stuff! Not the prettiest, but good.:thumbup:
 
Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

I'm pretty convinced I just got a lemon as well; you usually hear mostly good things about BRKT knives... my situation is out of the ordinary. However, I should mention that I have seen several other BRKT knives with similar issues on youtube and other forums, so my problem isn't the only one of it's kind. Potential customers need to be aware that this kind of thing is a possibility with any hand ground knife before buying it.

And it's very true that I can't judge the entire line based on one apparently defective knife, but I wrote the review with my personal experience as its foundation. So my thoughts on the knife will of course reflect that, for better or for worse.

Anyway, I don't think my knife's issue is with the steel or the heat treat. My knife hasn't chipped out at all, only bent. Correct me if I am wrong, but a knife bending over chipping is a sign of a good heat treatment, correct? So the steel appears to be good. I just can't figure out why it is bending so easily... and why it got so ridiculously dull after carving one small tree down to size! It has to be the grind, right?

Also, I found a picture of the tree I carved. I took a bit off the top so it would fit into the house, then shaved it down into a spear-like point with the Recluse. It was not a hard job. It should not have dulled the knife the way it did. In the knife's current state, I couldn't cut myself on it if I wanted to. It's pretty bad.

treeyq.jpg

Merry Christmas! Haha.

The tip I think was just way too thin, similar to the original edge on the knife. I've spent some time playing around with my sharpening stone and ground it down into a point again, but it still doesn't look quite right. I just hope it doesn't bend again.

Andy, what time are you free? I'll give you a call if you'd like. I'm not ready to give up on this Recluse just yet, though. I don't want to start thinking about swapping it out for a new one unless I absolutely have to.
 
I'm no expert but maybe the Rc is too low causing the knife to bend and dull easily. I would think if it was improperly high it would tend to chip. But then again this is like getting an opinion on quantum physics from a third grader so....

Good luck and all the best
Alan
 
G'day NC

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

I'm pretty convinced I just got a lemon as well; you usually hear mostly good things about BRKT knives... my situation is out of the ordinary.
I contributed to your original post, so I remember it well.

As a matter of fact, IIRC I was suggesting it might be an edge that was ground too thin :D

Since you have sent it back to the "spa' & it has been returned to you in a condition you don't find acceptable, if it was me, I would be requiring a full refund. :thumbup:

IMO, it really is as simple as that. After all, isn't this what a warranty is all about?

BTW, personally I find your honesty to be a very welcomed thing :thumbup::thumbup:




Kind regards
Mick
 
I'm free anytime my friend. And I don't hold your honest review against you either. I just want to make sure you get satisfaction. If I can lend a hand in this, then I am very willing.
 
Since I had the morning off today, I made a trip to the hardware store and picked up and rougher grit sand paper. I just spent the last 2-3 hours carefully hand grinding the Recluse down a bit, hoping to get it sharp enough for my strop to have an effect. I'm happy to report that I did manage to get the edge workable. I think I've found a nice medium between thickness and sharpness on the convex angle. After polishing it up on my strop it should be good! If anything this whole experience has taught me a thing or two about convex grinds and sharpening, haha.

I'm still convinced my problems have all been grind related, so after a few more trips to the great outdoors with this blade I'll know for sure. I think I've fixed the grind. If it stays sharp this time, and doesn't bend, I'll be a happy camper. If it continues to give me problems... well, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I do quite like this knife, the lines on it are great and it's quite pleasant in hand, so I really don't want to give up on it. Plus I pre-ordered this thing way back when the Recluse was first announced, so mine is the only one with burlap handles... :)

Time to strop!
 
If you want a fiddleback......GET IT FROM ANDY!!!!!(It is unfortunate, but this is what you must do.)
 
I'm very happy to see that everyone is keeping in mind that Andy Roy and Fiddleback Forge are NOT BRKT and not who made the production knives.
 
I'm very happy to see that everyone is keeping in mind that Andy Roy and Fiddleback Forge are NOT BRKT and not who made the production knives.
Thank God for that. I will never buy another Bark River.
 
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