update to the ivory ban

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I wonder what people would think about decoupling the conversation regarding the legal/illegal elephant ivory trade from the conversation about fossilized animal relics.

It's such a political hot potato, the elephant ivory conversation, whereas ancient ivory is like... whatever. You dig it up. No killing required.

Seems to me the custom knife industry might fare better in the long term if it concentrated on the less volatile discussion and helped to educate people on the fundamental differences between the two materials and sources thereof.
 
To the contrary Lorien, since this is not a renewable resource, what happens long term when we run out or even before when it becomes so scarce that it is too expensive?
 
Good point Lorien but we have tried that. There are those who have such a closed mind that they cannot comprehend the difference.
Mark, I put my 2cents in on the other forum.
Gary
 
Lorien said:
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I wonder what people would think about decoupling the conversation regarding the legal/illegal elephant ivory trade from the conversation about fossilized animal relics.

It's such a political hot potato, the elephant ivory conversation, whereas ancient ivory is like... whatever. You dig it up. No killing required.

Seems to me the custom knife industry might fare better in the long term if it concentrated on the less volatile discussion and helped to educate people on the fundamental differences between the two materials and sources thereof.
Click to expand...

Yes Lorien, that is what most of the problem with these bans are, the four current state bans we are talking about in the other thread I mentioned lumps mammoth ivory in with elephant ivory. I personally would love to keep the two separate, but they did no ask me.
 
Aside from the discussion about Ivory in that thread, I'm struck by the overtones of...well, unhappiness with America in general. It is indeed an emotional topic and it seems many other issues become intertwined in the topic. Has anything changed regarding other forms of ivory, i.e., walrus, hippo, narwhale, etc.?
 
Sorry for any insults. I tend to keep my thoughts to myself because of misunderstandings. I like ancient walrus ivory. It is very stable if used right and it is beautiful. It would be sad to see it banned. Gary
 
Lorien said:
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I wonder what people would think about decoupling the conversation regarding the legal/illegal elephant ivory trade from the conversation about fossilized animal relics.

It's such a political hot potato, the elephant ivory conversation, whereas ancient ivory is like... whatever. You dig it up. No killing required.

Seems to me the custom knife industry might fare better in the long term if it concentrated on the less volatile discussion and helped to educate people on the fundamental differences between the two materials and sources thereof.
Click to expand...

Lorien, you could share your thoughts in the other thread if you like.
 
David Stifle said:
Aside from the discussion about Ivory in that thread, I'm struck by the overtones of...well, unhappiness with America in general. It is indeed an emotional topic and it seems many other issues become intertwined in the topic. Has anything changed regarding other forms of ivory, i.e., walrus, hippo, narwhale, etc.?
Click to expand...

So far only mammoth, but the wording is such that other kinds of ivory could be included if it looks like elephant. I have not had a chance to read them all.
 
the problem is, (sort of) the last time an elephant ivory ban was instituted, it worked. Had nothing to do with fossils, just elephants and their tusks.

I've read a lot of articles that point out the societal differences that have occurred since then, and there are some very good points that support a legal elephant ivory trade. The additional pressure put on this living resource by fundamentalist fanatical groups with heavy armaments is a new facet of this issue that is highly problematic, politically and practically, as is an increasingly more wealthy global Buddhist population. Lots of facets to the elephant ivory conversation, and therefore it is not so cut and dried. I have yet to form an opinion regarding the banning of elephant ivory vs. a legal, regulated trade.

Whether or not a ban of elephant ivory is appropriate, though, is a separate conversation from the rules regarding the harvesting of fossils, and their use. Two completely separate issues, in my opinion. The fossil ivory issue, is in my view, winnable. That win will be less attainable if it is lumped in with an issue that involves global politics, fundamentalist terrorism, religion, changing economic situations for societies, etc. which surround the elephant ivory ban.

The knife folk are probably the most numerous of the users of fossilized ivory, and if not that, probably the most passionate. I really do think that our folk could very well be the ones to bring the education into the conversation, and create the rational change we need to see.

Ancient ivory should be harvested by in-country interests. In Canada, foreign interests increasingly control a significant portion of our natural resources, and I think this is wrong. In the case of the US, wrt ancient ivory, set up regulations that require US owned interests to be the sole sources; don't give that resource away to other countries. The US controls its pricing of ancient ivories, and the global market does its thing. Capitalism, baby!

The question regarding the value of this stuff going up...welcome to reality! Resources which are finite and limited command value. The price will go up, because demand is going up. If we can shift the demand from fresh ivory to fossilized ivory, the demand for the fossilized kind will increase, as will its value. This would be good for suppliers, maybe not so good for the guy who wants fossil ivory and can't afford it. Too bad for him. Probably wants a Rolex, too.

Time's coming where ivory will be grown in labs via stem cells. Be the best thing to happen to elephants in a long time :)
 
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