UPDATED! Need some more help with stroping

S

Squashfan

Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
1,670
Updated: see post #20

Thanks to all you guys for your help!!! I am assembling a list in my head of sharpening compounds to get. I plan to sharpen my knives on a Lansky finish them with this and then maintain my edges day to day with this set up.

So far, here is the list:

1st: Bark River black and green compound + leather strop
http://www.knivesshipfree.com/product_info.php?cPath=637_638&products_id=6348 (Yes, this is a dealer.)

I am also thinking about some Hand American 1 micron diamond spray, if I can find a reputable source. And a balsa strop for the diamond spray

My main question is should I get both the spray and the black/green compound? And would these work for day to day edge maintenance.


Thanks again!
Squashfan
 
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I like to sharpen with stones/ceramics down to 1600 grit and then use a green compound to finish and refine the edge. The finer and more perfectly profiled your edge the better the strop will work.

Personally, I don't like to use more then one stropping compound. With a good guided system and a little care, you should have a perfect V edge. Stropping is not as precise and the more you mess with it the more likely you are to screw up the V edge.

I think you'd be better off with the EdgePro or Wicked Edge. The tapes on the EdgePro (which you can use on the Wicked Edge, too) will give you a refined and extremely sharp edge. The key is to refine you edge with ever finer stones, never jumping to far with the following stone.

Basically, you're planning to create a V edge with a guided system and then keep it sharp with an unguided system. That's not usually a good idea, unless you are really, really good at stropping.
I didn't like the Bark River stropping kit. The leather didn't take the compound well, and the two compounds were dried out. I chucked it. I glued a section of high-quality belt to a board and use the green compound (.5 micron) and don't strop too much at the end.

I can maintain a sharp edge with the strop for a while, but not long and not at all if the edge gets at all dull.
 
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What kicked this query off was the people who say: "I kept my knife sharp for 3 months just with stropping!". No idea if that is true but I need something to extend the life of my pocket knife edges.

Lansky makes a leather stropping hone. I could load that with a compound. What brand would you recommend?
 
Squashfan said:
What kicked this query off was the people who say: "I kept my knife sharp for 3 months just with stropping!". No idea if that is true but I need something to extend the life of my pocket knife edges.

Lansky makes a leather stropping hone. I could load that with a compound. What brand would you recommend?
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IMHO, the ability to maintain with a strop has a lot to do with the strop and abrasive. The firmer the strop the less rounding you'll have. A good maintenance strop (especially for a beginner) is to simply wrap a sheet or two of newspaper around your bench stone and rub some compound on that. MDF or balsa might work similarly, but I swear by the paper over stone method. Black compound will maintain a slightly toothy EDU edge for a long time, and fix small dings and dulling of a finer edge. Any black compound will do, I get great results from the stuff from Sears - a drop of mineral oil will allow the compound to be strung out a bit better than the dry block will allow. A finer compound will give you more of a shaving/chopping edge.

On softer steels like kitchen knives and machetes, using black and following with (if a finer edge is desired) white/yellow/green compound, can pretty much maintain an arm hair shaving edge indefinitely. Harder steels might need more stone work more often when they become worn but one can still get a lot of life and time between anyway.

The advantages of the newspaper (any light paper will work, but noting too thin - phonebook paper is no good, but copy paper works OK) are you can toss it when it gets loaded up (turns black from swarf), it has very little deflection to help reduce rounding of the apex, and it gives consistent performance. A leather strop will load up and need to be sanded, wiped off with mild solvents etc to restore it, so one wouldn't want to remove much steel with it even if it was extremely firm. In that case, it makes more sense to only use the strop for a final treatment but the garden variety compounds are capable of doing a lot more work than that, all depends how they're used.

HH
 
The green compound should be all you need to maintain an edge. The link doesn't say what micron theirs is, but I use formax green compound and it is .5 micron. If theirs is the same the spray would be a step in the wrong direction for what you are planning.

I wouldn't bother with anything rougher until you you feel like you have mastered freehand stropping. I sharpen and strop on an edge pro or lansky for smaller knives. I maintain my edges with freehand strops. Yes it is possible to maintain an edge for a very long time with a strop depending on how the knife is used.

The lansky strops are okay but far from flat. I load mine with DMT 1 micron compound.
 
You'll see a lot of debates about stropping because it's an imprecise method of sharpening. Everyone has their own technique, materials, stropping compounds, backing and angle. For a beginner, that system can be a wild ride.

The Bark River stropping kit with the black and green compound is, as a general matter, used for convex edges. People who are able to keep their edges sharp for a long period of actual use are stropping a convex edge -- either because the edge started out as convex or became convex with stropping on a soft surface. It's not easy to strop a V edge without rounding it off. Yes, with the right technique and backing, it can be done, but it's not easy.

You could simply go with a convex edge, creating it with mousepad and sandpaper. That convex edge would be easy to maintain with stropping -- either with compound or fine sandpaper. The downside is that it will take some practice before you master it.

You could also use your guided system to create a perfect V primary V edge, followed by a secondary bevel (microbevel) at a steeper angle. On Spyderco's Sharpmaker, for example, you'd create a primary edge of 30 degrees (15 dps) and then ad a microbevel of 40 degrees (20 dps). The microbevel is a snap to keep sharp with just a few swipes at the 40 degree angle. Eventually, as the bevel thickens from repeated touch-up sharpenings on the 40 degree stone, you'd re-establish the 30 degree primary bevel and start the process over.
 
Squashfan said:
What kicked this query off was the people who say: "I kept my knife sharp for 3 months just with stropping!". No idea if that is true but I need something to extend the life of my pocket knife edges.
Click to expand...

I only put most of my knives through a series of stones about 3 times a year. The rest of the time my folders only get stropped, while my kitchen knives will get 3-4 passes down the Sharpmaker's extra fine rods every couple of weeks and steeled with a borocilicate glass rod before each use.

Lansky makes a leather stropping hone. I could load that with a compound. What brand would you recommend?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't use a strop that is factory made and sold for knives. The leather is too soft. I'd buy a cheap piece of veg-tanned leather for $10, case and compressed it well, and make 3-4 strops that work properly. That, or a piece of MDF board. The Chromium Oxide compound I use came in liquid form from HandAmerican years ago, but for general use, almost any will do the job unless you are looking for 'the perfect edge,' even the stuff from Sears, Harbor Freight, or even the Dollar Store. All will get your edges hair-splitting sharp with the 'right strop' and the correct technique.


Stitchawl
 
EDIT: Local Sears has green buffing compound. Would that work? Thanks in advance.

Original post:
Thanks! Would I just go into a Sears hardware dept and ask for green and black buffing compounds? Also, I am searching for black buffing compound on the web and I keep seeing the black referred to as "black emery". Is that what I am looking for?
 
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Squashfan said:
EDIT: Local Sears has green buffing compound. Would that work? Thanks in advance.

Original post:
Thanks! Would I just go into a Sears hardware dept and ask for green and black buffing compounds? Also, I am searching for black buffing compound on the web and I keep seeing the black referred to as "black emery". Is that what I am looking for?
Click to expand...

Black emery is black compound.

I would get the black and white compound from Sears, add the green if you want but their green really isn't as good as some others. Their white is capable of a hair splitting edge and still polishes fairly quickly. Their green has very little bite compared to the stuff I picked up at Woodcraft.
 
My Sears has no black, but there is a Woodcraft next to my Sears. Should I get Woodcraft's green compound?

Sorry for all the questions.
 
For a good all around strop for general purpose sharpening I would suggest the DLT double sided items. Kind of hit and miss on what you get leather wise but a nice piece. Thinner / harder leather. A bit more forgiving.
 
stitchawl said:
I only put most of my knives through a series of stones about 3 times a year. The rest of the time my folders only get stropped, while my kitchen knives will get 3-4 passes down the Sharpmaker's extra fine rods every couple of weeks and steeled with a borocilicate glass rod before each use.



I wouldn't use a strop that is factory made and sold for knives. The leather is too soft. I'd buy a cheap piece of veg-tanned leather for $10, case and compressed it well, and make 3-4 strops that work properly. That, or a piece of MDF board. The Chromium Oxide compound I use came in liquid form from HandAmerican years ago, but for general use, almost any will do the job unless you are looking for 'the perfect edge,' even the stuff from Sears, Harbor Freight, or even the Dollar Store. All will get your edges hair-splitting sharp with the 'right strop' and the correct technique.


Stitchawl
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Agreed.

Btw, Hf white compound, they sell it in a tube (it's like a thick crayon) and market it for use on aluminum and plastic, is capable of a near mirror polish. I say near because there may be very light scratches that you can see with a loupe. My guess is that this is due to the impurities that are on the outside of the stick. If you are careful you may eliminate this altogether, I haven't tried. Imho it is really good stuff for the couple of bucks it costs.

As for Stitchawls suggestion for leather, I am bought a big hide at a Tandy leather store in Fresno. I can't remember what I payed, but it was more than worth it. I could make 10-15 strops out of it. My strops are typically 12" by 3 to 4" depending on what they are for.

HH- I've noticed your recommendation for paper over a stone more than once and I think I'm going to try it. One question though. Why over the stone? Does the surface of the stone serve some purpose?
 
Squashfan said:
My Sears has no black, but there is a Woodcraft next to my Sears. Should I get Woodcraft's green compound?

Sorry for all the questions.
Click to expand...

The Woodcraft green is made by Formax, its pretty good stuff. Woodcraft should also have a yellow compound called Flexcut Gold - this stuff is excellent. Maybe not a mirror finish but close and makes a real nice edge.
My local Sears switched to a different system and the compound now comes in plastic tubes. Pretty sure it has a yellow cap and is listed for heavy cleaning/grinding of cast iron and hard ferrous metals, if you open it you'll see a dark black compound. If they sell buffing wheels and bench grinders they have to have some. My local ACE has compounds made by Dico which also make a very good product, you could try there. HD is also carrying the Ryobi brand and their black works OK too.
 
Strigamort said:
HH- I've noticed your recommendation for paper over a stone more than once and I think I'm going to try it. One question though. Why over the stone? Does the surface of the stone serve some purpose?
Click to expand...

Give it a try, just make sure to wipe the stone free of any loose grit before you wrap the paper, and wrap it nice and tight. Yes, the stone surface serves a purpose, use the coarse side of your combination stone and then the fine side - you'll notice a difference.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Give it a try, just make sure to wipe the stone free of any loose grit before you wrap the paper, and wrap it nice and tight. Yes, the stone surface serves a purpose, use the coarse side of your combination stone and then the fine side - you'll notice a difference.
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Very good. Thanks for the advice. :)
 
I found the green and gold compound on Woodcraft's website. Will I still need the black? The hardest steel I own is D2.

I am very grateful to all you guys for your excellent advice. I have been trying to understand stropping and have needed some intensive help, which this thread provided me.
To the wonderful people who replied to this thread: THANK YOU!
 
Squashfan said:
I found the green and gold compound on Woodcraft's website. Will I still need the black? The hardest steel I own is D2.

I am very grateful to all you guys for your excellent advice. I have been trying to understand stropping and have needed some intensive help, which this thread provided me.
To the wonderful people who replied to this thread: THANK YOU!
Click to expand...

The black is a strong addition to the crew. Finer compounds can make for a finer edge but at the expense of draw cutting ability. Finer compounds realistically cannot repair damage, dings, chips, rolls, or dulling beyond a very superficial degree. The black compound can handle both tasks and is very inexpensive to keep on hand. For my EDU knives I generally stop at the black - can crosscut newspaper and shave arm hair, facial stubble etc, but with a lot of bite and easy to maintain and repair. Only if the knife in question is to be used for pressure cutting, chopping, shaving etc will I go ahead and polish it finer. You really need to experiment a bit to find out what edge strategy works best for YOU.

HH
 
I hear you loud and clear. I will keep looking for somewhere local to get black emery. Lowe's has something by Porter and Cable I may look at.
 
always feel for a burr before stropping. it wont work if you have a rough edge bent over from sharpening. just lightly take some single strokes on each side and feel them from spine to edge on the edge to make sure theyre smooth, and then strop.
 
Alright! I got to Lowe's today and discovered that they carry 5 different grits of compound. It is $3 a pop and made in China. The compound come in the form of a giant, dry crayon which I rubbed liberally on some newspaper. I wrapped the newspaper around my benchstone (which still needs lapping) and went to work. Heavyhanded, I forgot to wipe the stone. However, I was still extremely pleased by the results of just using the black compound.

An other big thank you to all who participated on this thread. You have greatly helped this humble forumite.

EDIT: Before I forget, I picked up a leather hone for my Lansky today. I think the next step is to load the leather with the black compound. That is going to be the real fun!
 
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