Upsetting W1 bar questions and concerns (Please Help)

F

Future Samurai

Joined
May 30, 2020
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15
Greetings BF,

I have some questions for some of you much more seasoned smiths and metallurgists.

I've been working on a project for about 2 weeks and in order to hit the adequate dimensions of what I've had in mind, I've had to do some upsetting on a 1" drill rod of W1 tool steel. Let me just get this out of the way for any of you: I've worked with W1 many times now, and I'm no stranger to it. However, this is the first time I've done any upsetting.

I'm getting the dimensions I want slowly but surely, that isn't the issue. What is eating away at me is this:

When you upset a bar you are using it's own weight on itself to compress it, The bar will not upset evenly unless you do constant correction and heat up different parts of the bar. This is what has me worried...

When heating up a section higher up on the bar, I'm hitting my steel plate on the ground with bottom of the bar which is cold. I know that hammering and forging create stress in the steel, this is why normalization is key. This is even more true of you hit steel while it's "cold" (the point where the bar is being hit is not totally cold, perhaps 400-600F, but still way lower than any forging temp) So what I'm asking is:

How bad for my bar of steel is this?
Is the stress that is being cause by this process isolated only to the part being struck, or is it traveling into the entire length of the bar?

The steel will be further forged and of course normalized when all the pounding is done. I'd really appreciate some guidance, as this is a pretty special project I have in mind, and I'm too close to just let go. I'd really hope this doesn't compromise the final blade durability.

Thanks for reading my long post, any help is welcome.

Thanks
 
Haven't used much W1, so take this with a grain of salt. You shouldn't have any real issues, but if you are concerned, simply do a thermal cycle on the bar every so often between upsets. W1 is a fairly simple steel, so it shouldn't give you any real issues.
 
In the forging heats the stresses will be relieved. Unless you created a crack at the end by getting crazy with slamming the bar down, upsetting should not create any flaws in the rest of the bar. It probably would be wise to not use the very end, but otherwise the bar should be fine.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
In the forging heats the stresses will be relieved. Unless you created a crack at the end by getting crazy with slamming the bar down, upsetting should not create any flaws in the rest of the bar. It probably would be wise to not use the very end, but otherwise the bar should be fine.
Click to expand...

Yeah, That's what I was hopeful to hear Stacy.

As for getting crazy... I just had to hit it with sufficient force to get the job done. Not sure what your definition of crazy is Lol ;)

Kidding aside, It is a rather thick and wide bar at this point (4 cm wide x ~13mm thick), It would seem that it would be almost impossible for my force alone to cause any kind of crack in it. Are these cracks visible to the eye? Can you feel them?

As Will said above, I actually do a lower final heat (~1450F ) on the end that has been slammed out of pure uncertainty once I'm finished for the day. Thermal cycle if you will.

Anyway glad to hear that this will more than likely have no effect in the finished blade.

Thanks!
 
Will52100 said:
Haven't used much W1, so take this with a grain of salt. You shouldn't have any real issues, but if you are concerned, simply do a thermal cycle on the bar every so often between upsets. W1 is a fairly simple steel, so it shouldn't give you any real issues.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reassurance. I actually have started doing that the past few days before finishing up and shutting of the forge. Great idea

Thanks!
 
If you are beating the end of the bar on the anvil for a couple hundred whacks, then you might mushroom the end. Mushrooming usually leaves the edges cracked. If that happens, cut/grind the mushroomed part off.

As part of a demo years back I took a piece of 1/2" square stock and upset it about 2" from the end until it had bulged to around 3/4". I then forged the rest into a blade and tang, and forged the upset area for an integral bolster. I held the stock in a small vise that has a bottom stud that drops in the hardy hole. The jaws stick out enough to hold the bar vertically so the end seated on the anvil face. I heated the upset area with a Prestolite torch while hammering on the upper end.

Another fun upsetting project is upsetting the ends of two 24" pieces of 1/2" round stock to make ball ends and then making the bars into tongs.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
If you are beating the end of the bar on the anvil for a couple hundred whacks, then you might mushroom the end. Mushrooming usually leaves the edges cracked. If that happens, cut/grind the mushroomed part off.

As part of a demo years back I took a piece of 1/2" square stock and upset it about 2" from the end until it had bulged to around 3/4". I then forged the rest into a blade and tang, and forged the upset area for an integral bolster. I held the stock in a small vise that has a bottom stud that drops in the hardy hole. The jaws stick out enough to hold the bar vertically so the end seated on the anvil face. I heated the upset area with a Prestolite torch while hammering on the upper end.

Another fun upsetting project is upsetting the ends of two 24" pieces of 1/2" round stock to make ball ends and then making the bars into tongs.
Click to expand...

Great, great, great! Things just keep getting better and better.

I actually got the most minor amount of mushrooming on the end of the bar. Took me less than a minute to knock it off with a file. Monday will probably be the last day I have to do any upsetting (thank God!), as my blank is very close to the size before preliminary blade forging begins. If that's the worse that can happen, then I'm golden.

So by the end of the following week, I'll probably be posting a pic of what this will turn into. Thanks for your help and for answering my questions/concerns!

BTW Stacy, how exactly does one post pictures on here?
 
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