Usability of choil on HRLM?

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Aug 31, 2008
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I'm sure this has been addressed before but I'm just curious: for those who have them do you consider the choil on the HRLM to be of usable size. It looks quite small, which is good as long as it is big enough to be used comfortably. Does anyone know how they compare to the choils on RAT cutlery RC3 or RC4. The choil on these two knives is JUST big enough.
Thanks.
 
The choil on the Howler is smaller then the one on the RC-4

RC-4Howler01.jpg
 
I don't consider the factory HRLM choil usable.
The factory RMD choil "is" usable.

Personally, I would rather the HRLM not have had ANY choil at all. But, the one on it falls into the catagory of the newly coined term: "Elf" choil - which Busse has been using for years - especially on many Busse knives (unfortunately).
From the factory, the Elf choil is too small to fit a finger in and make usable. But, it is WAY larger than it needs to be for just a sharpening choil.

Since the Elf choil is already there, it can't be removed. So, the next best option is to "try" to make it functional. Many people including myself have modified the factory HRLM choil by grinding it larger to make it usable.
Most people of ground out the choil to make it larger by grinding forward into the blade.
Personally, I didn't want to lose any more functional sharpened edge and felt the guard was larger than it needed to be. So, I ground my choil back into the guard.

The end result is at least functional and IMO is a MUCH improved option over the factory elf choil and looks fine.

My HRLM with my SS4 (both stripped, satin finished and convex edge):

SwampRat-HRLMstrippedmodifiedwit-3.jpg


The modification process is quite easy - and easy to make/maintain a decent look. Many people just grind it out with a Dremel. But, you REALLY need to take care to not over-heat the blade - which can damage the temper. Jerry and Eric will not recommend modifying the knife. I can't blame them if people damage the knife/temper then want warranty coverage. But, with just a little bit of care in watching to avoid heat build-up, the process really is easy. Keep a dipping bucker of water nearby while grinding and dip often. The water cools a blade WAY faster than air. Personally, I always grind with bare hands and CONSTANTLY feel the area of blade I am grinding to keep from getting hot. I try to "Safely" keep my fingers actually near the area I am grinding to feel for heat. After some practice, you get a feel for how much grinding you can do without building up too much heat.

Personally, I prefer using a drum-sanding attachment on my Drill Press. This allows me to hold the knife with both hands = better control and secure grip on the knife. Further, the drum sizes are a bit better to work with and the speeds are bit slower which makes it easier to control heat build-up... although a drum sanding head on a drill / drill press will still generate heat.

Hope that helps.

I can't give "fair" or "meaningful" comments on the Rat Cutlery blades. I don't have them. But, from what I see and have read, they look and appear to be decent knives and feedback has been good. From pictures, the choils on the RC3 and RC4 "appear" to be large enough for use. (?????).
Although, personally, I think it is WEIRD, that RAT Cutlery put choils on the smaller knives: RC3 and RC4, but NOT on the larger RC5 (?????) - Seems backwards to me. Otherwise, they seem like fine enough knives.
Personally, I am fine with the choil on the Swamp Rat RMD, but wish the smaller HRLM did not have a choil.

The RC3 is significantly smaller than the HRLM.
The RC4 is closer to the HRLM, but the specs on the RC4 show the RC4 to still be just a bit smaller than the HRLM.
In spite of the elf choil on the HRLM, I still contend the choild to be a pretty easy modification on the HRLM and Personally, (once modified) I "assume" the HRLM to be a nicer knife than the RC4.
The handle on the HRLM is VERY comfortable and other than the choil, the Blade shape on the HRLM is very nice. Once the choil is modified on the HRLM, it should be no worse and possibly better than the RC4's - assuming you custom grind/fit it how you want it.

The RC5 specs show it to be just a bit larger/longer than the RMD. But, my money is on the RMD again. I love the RMD.


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The choil on the Howler is smaller then the one on the RC-4

RC-4Howler01.jpg

Hmmm... knowing how small the HRLM's choil is from the factory, that RC-4's choil still looks too small for my fingers - and therefore, I question it function.

Martin, can you confirm if the RC-4's choil is large enough for a finger? Not that it matters to me. But, curious now.
 
I think I didn't make it clear in my initial post. I have both an RC-3 and an RC-4 and the choil is definitely usable. It is however, just about as small as it can be while still being usable. Thanks for the posts guys. My questions have definitely been answered. The choil on the HRLM is definitely a little too small to be comfortable. I guess I might get one and try to modify it the way you did DWRW (although I would make it slightly smaller).
 
Sorry. I did not understand you had the RC3 and RC4.

The HRLM really is a good knife with a LOT of potential to be a great knife.

In regards to choils size, I have large hands - wear XL gloves and size 13 wedding ring. Plus, I just like a bit of room. I don't need overly large choils, but I don't want to squeeze my finger into one either.

That is one of the benefits of customizing your own though.

The other modification that I think helped the HRLM for my purposes was to elongate the thumb recess. The ramp fits my thumb fine with my thumb forward of the ramp. The RMD doesn't have the pronounced "recess" like the HRLM. Again, it may just be my hands, but I felt the factory recess was cramped.

My pic doesn't show the elongation of the recess very well. So, I just photo chopped Martin's pic real quick since the black/white contrast shows it well.

The end result is a smooth transitional rise up over the spine with lots of ability to move my thumb forward when choked up. I like it much better.

It is another simple modification, but might cause you to want to satin finish at least the whole spine (?????)

Just showing options:

SwampRat-HRLMshowingmods.jpg


Good luck. Again, I think the HRLM has great potential. :thumbup:

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Thanks again DWRW! That last photo shop you did of the choil is VERY close to what I would consider perfect on this knife (for me of course). :thumbup:
 
Thanks again DWRW! That last photo shop you did of the choil is VERY close to what I would consider perfect on this knife (for me of course). :thumbup:



Glad that looks good to you. Although, who knows, you might like the thumb recess as is. I can only speak for myself. I like the modifications I did to the thumb recess and the choil.

I think you will be happy with the end result and the mods are easy enough.

Good luck.
 
Here's my modified choil. I also deleted the annoying lanyard hole at the butt. Much more comfortable and useful now.



MVC-003F-8.jpg
 
I used a Dremel grinding wheel to make my choil larger. It is functional now, but I'd like it just a little larger still. I need to find a slightly larger grinding wheel.

HRLM4.jpg
 
I used a Dremel grinding wheel to make my choil larger. It is functional now, but I'd like it just a little larger still. I need to find a slightly larger grinding wheel.

HRLM4.jpg


Those little narrow height Dremel stone wheels are hard to work with. And those wheels have a fairly fine grit and seem to "clog up" or get smooth.
The Dremel sanding "Drum" is taller and much easier to work with and actually has a coarser grit which grinds better.

Even better is a sanding Drum "Kit" that offers different sizes.

I like to use the drum kit on my Drill press because with the Drill Press, I can hold the knife with both hands = better control = safer and better results.

I have a kit similar to this:

00925262000-1




$20 at Sears: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00925262000P?keyword=sanding+drum

You could probably use an electric drill and clamp the drill somehow as long as you don't clamp the motor housing.

*** Another advantage of the drums over the narrow stone wheels is the drums are Much easier and better to work with if putting a nice "Bevel" on the sides of the choil.

With my drill press, I just angle the knife and work it around the drum.

They make and sell taller stone wheels for drills, but they just don't seem to grind worth a flip. The stone wheels do create friction heat nicely... for whatever that is worth. I have tried many stone wheels and have not been impressed. The hard rubber drum head / sanding sleeve combos work much better IMO.

If you don't need or want the "Kit" with multiple sizes, I am sure you can just purchase a single 3/4" drum head for $4 - $5 or so.

I typically use the 3/4" drum the most and move it around to make the size I need. I think a 1" drum is just a bit too big and a 1/2" drum is pretty small.

Then you can buy a whole bag full of drum "Sleeves" - probably 50 sleeves in a bag for about $6 - $7 at Sears. Pretty cheap - especially if you have an electric drill or drill press already. :thumbup:

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Very cool. Thanks. I'll check it out! :thumbup:
 
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