use of the abaniko in fighting

T

thekuntawman

Joined
Nov 28, 1999
Messages
235
the abaniko is a technique that if you didnt learn to use it it really is no good to you. lots of guys know just the overhead style of hitting with the abaniko, and maybe there is not enough power there, or they saw opening to the body, or whatever, so then they gave up on that kind of hitngs. or they said it was not a useful hit.

if you dont mind i have to get off this computer because mine is broken, and my time is limited. but i would like to read some comments but then when i got more time i can give some advice on the usage of the abaniko style of sparring also known as pekiti tirsia.

if you dont have patience to wait, i put a description on another board, which i think it was cyberkwoon or ummah.com, i'm not sure i forgot. but you can read it there. but i will put a good explaination of this style later in the week.

[This message has been edited by thekuntawman (edited 05-05-2001).]
 
Mr. Gatdula!

I think some of the criticisms of Abanico come from using padded gloves actually. It is possible for a really tough fighter that is really into sticks, etc., like The Dog Brothers, to get a couple of fingers broken and continue. As a matter of fact, I think that has already happened with those guys. They're tough as nails.

I think out on the street though, you are going to find that in the vast majority of cases, the person is going to drop whatever they have in their hand if you pull off a vicious Abanico to their hand or wrist. Then, if you go horizontal or diagonal [my favorite] to the head...with a good ASP or other Telescoping Baton...it's over.

I think in Pekiti it is called "reversa," where you are chambered for one hit and strike another line. What I am speaking of is being chambered for a #2 and delivering a #1 witik, which ends up being fanning-like-abanico when done fast. It is fast and nasty.

I don't know if people better versed in Pekiti would consider that "abanico" or not, but the way I end up doing reversa on that line, ends up being an abanico, a fan.
smile.gif


The beauty of reversa in this case, delivered like that is simple. If the person has any idea that you are chambered for a backhand, they are not going to get exactly what they are expecting and, it can be almost like a very tight figure 8 and come up from underneath and hit them as well. I practice it both ways actually.

Good stuff, post it here Mr. Gatdula. If you write it out offline, all you have to do is cut and paste it into a window here!


------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
I happen to like the abaniko and I think that most of the criticism comes from not having been taught to apply it and how to generate power with it. The lack of power is accentuated when sparring with lacrosse gloves and body armor.

The abaniko/witik is a great way of attacking the hand and head as well as redirecting an opponent's weapon. It can also be a nice little surprise for those moments when your opponent thinks they have your weapon arm checked or that they have otherwise blocked you from hitting them.

In my personal experience, the abaniko/witiks are the most powerful when they travel along a vertical plane and their power diminishes as your plane of attack comes closer to horizontal.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton



------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."

[This message has been edited by Dave Fulton (edited 05-07-2001).]
 
I agree. The witik or abanico can be wicked effective and powerful when executed correctly and at the right angle.

Mario

------------------
Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.
 
Not a big abaniko fan, however I met some PT folks who could generate a good snap on the vertical plane like Dave said.

I personally don't use it on the arms and it probably is because of headgear and the gear in general. With headgear, as it'll probably piss him off more than anything and with the handgear (including the stick used), it can feel cumbersome for ME.

I have used it as defense for a low thrust but am slowly working out of this. I would use abaniko as a fake to set up some shots as my opponent defends.

 
Smoke,

Don't you think that what you described is actually a negative with regard to a Combat Art?

If people do not wear protective gloves and helmets on the street, is it really a "positive" to give up a whole bag of tricks simply because it does not work in light-armored sparring?

This is my opinion only, and I do not wish to piss anyone off at all, but to me, this is evolving a Combat Art into a Sport.

If the Abanico lands on the face, it is going to bust someone up, the hands can be incredibly tough, but we are not talking about a single, fast strike either...when it let's loose, you should not stop until someone is down. You are, after all, defending your life...

I would never simply "tag" someone on the street with a single Abanico unless they received a broken hand and immediately broke contact. I would hope something else would catch them as they turned around though.
biggrin.gif


There are alot of Japanese Arts that went from "jutsu" to "do," and that's fine if someone wants to do that...

But I think for Self-defense, again, unless you are fighting knuckleheads in football helmets or lacrosse gloves, it is something that should be studied, mastered and used whenever possible.



------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
This is a bit tricky for me Don. I'm not against abanico in the arsenal for the average guy (LEO/Mil I'd say skip it, though some can do abanico and redondo with a Maglite or PR-24). I AM against those who think it is a kill shot to be done while standing square to a person. There are also folks who think that an abanico with a blade is the way to go and makes them lethal.

I'm sure folks here have seen fighters who only do abanico or redondo and neglect power shots as well as guys who hold knives like sticks and can't cut with long blades. Again the art becoming sport.

I wouldn't tag with abanico either except for a hit and run strategy. Looking over the years of my training, I have seen one type of abanico work but that was in the horizontal plane and could've easily been called a snap cut by bystanders.

Oh Don, here's another word to add for "tops", trumpo.
smile.gif


 
TRUMPO! Very cool, thank you!

Abanico is a means to an end, not the end itself.

I agree 100% that it should not be viewed as "the end." It is a segue into something terrible happening to the attacker, we hope.

Like I said, hey, if you are confronted with someone who wants to stick a broken bottle up your nose, and you cut them once and they bolt, I think that is great. Same goes with the abanico, but I'm not counting on that happening.

------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
I definitely agree that they make a great set up or part of a combination, which is how I use them, and would hesitate to rely upon one as a fight stopper.

Respectfully,

Dave.
 
sorry, everybody, i cant remember what forums i explained the abaniko on. anyway, i'm going to do a better job today anyway.

the "abaniko" style is a style of fighting, which is what people call the close range, or pikiti tirsia or corto mano to some. to many of the old men you meet, other than that group of manong in stockton, you will hear them talk about the "abaniko" style, which is also the only style of eskrima i know completely.

abaniko/pikiti tirsia is not a style you can get rank in or learn from beginning to end like any arts. the abaniko may be one of many styles of fighting inside your own style, and they are terms familiar to visayan styles of eskrima. each style has a specialty and a purpose. and your style of fighting is made up of many styles of eskrima fighting or just two or three.

anyway, the abaniko style is not design to be used for a long time in the close distance where an abaniko is used best. you use it when the oponnent is close and he is not trying to grab your legs. the opponent can be trying to tie up your hands and arms, disarms you or maybe he just wants to hit you. but when you use this abaniko method, you use it very quickly to confuse your opponent, put a few hurtings here and there, and set him up for a major power hit that can end that fight.

there are rules to using this method:
* the opponent should not be able to tie your arm from your elbow to the shoulder with his own arm. a grab or push is okay.
* you should explore all the ways your hit can make it through when your arm is grabbed or trapped or pushed. the rule is, when any joint is free, your wrist or the elbow, you have a hit.
* it is better to shift your hitting arm away from the opponent side. this means you put your free hand/shoulder forward while you are fighting even if you were the other way around first. the easy way to do this is to step away with the foot on the same side that your have your stick or knife. you can step back or outside of your enemy.
* when the opponent closed into your attack zone, your first move is to put your free hand between you and the opponent while you free the weapon hand. you should try to make your free arm almost straight at the elbow, but then you should know where it is your weapons hand and what part of the opponent is near him.
* you can hit the opponent from his left side or his right, no matter what hand your weapon is in. how do you do this? be able to look him in the eye and know where all this hands and knees are so you know where to move the hand (you can bring the hand under or over his arm or your arm). the best time to hit him is while he is fighting to get your weapons hand. if you understand this rule, you wont be disarmed.
* learn to create power from any postion with even the smallest distance to start from. your enemy will not look at you while your stick has just smacked him in the face nose eyes cheekbones or whatever. his eyes will close and he will turn his head even for only 1 or 2 seconds. that is enough time to land a bone breaking hit from any positon without a wind up.

i will continue this long post next.
 
anyway to keep it short, here is a short explanation of how to use the style

when the opponent is closing in, he wants to do three things, to grab you and throw you to the ground, to grab your stick and take it (or stop you from hitting you), or to tie up your hand so you cant strike or cut anymore. so, the first thing we do is to protect that hand. the free hand stops him from wrapping the arms around you. while you do that let your stick hand move around so he can grab it-maybe you witik the hand he's reaching to you with. at the same time you move your legs off his line of movement (the straight line where his butok is pointed, ask a pilipino what is a butok) take your legs off that line, which is the only place he is really dangerous to you (not because he might pee on you, do you get it now?) this will force the guy to change his direction, disrup his balance, and change his mental plans for you.

next if there is a positon, you can blast him in the head with your stick. if he is still fighting you for superior position, continue to hit him with the stick hand but always changed the direction its coming from (this is why we use the fan-style hit because he wont know where you will hit by looking at your hand) my favorite quick hit is to straight my arm 45 degrees to my right and use the inside abaniko hit to his head or hand. when he react to that i quickly drop my hand and hit him low with a witik (HIT, not fan style snap) when his attention is low and he reacts to that by this time i stepped off his line already, my free hand was searching for a hooking or grabbing position (he didnt know because his mind was on my weapon) and i only took 1/2 a second to bring it back up, now i have a power shot with my opponent one second/one hit behind me.

the main thing to remember is this hit can knock out a guy if you are lucky, but thats not what they designed it for. it is a quick way to get to superior positon, distract him while you move your feet. quickly hit two or three target in one second, then trap him with the free hand for a power hit.

i wrote all this because lately i met many arnisadors and eskrimador who said the abaniko is useless and they "trim the fat". well, maybe the guy who taught them had lots of fat, but the technique is one important part of arnis he should know. it is more than a cute overhead hit but its a style you must know how to use it if the hit will be any good to you. other than that he is just collecting foreign books but didnt learn the language yet.
 
Fair enough, at least with thekuntawman's guidelines, you won't get the bad tourney habits. I may actually give it a chance again.

BTW, does anyone ever 'throw' their stick? Forehand strike becomes a tired swing and the stick flies out of your hand.
 
i did find the other forum its located at www.ummah.com/fighting

there is mostly philippine martial artists there, but they are all muslim. please if you visit do not speak poorly of islam or fight about religion. thank you.

to answer smoke, i never through my weapon. except when its by accident, like the guy hit my hand in the right place. i am glad to say i can even remember a time in the last maybe 8 years i did that even when my hand got hit.

i dont believe in throwing a knife either. your opponent will probably wear cloths, and skin is not that easy to stab with a throw, like a target, which is solid and still. the skin of your opponent will first have clothes, then he will be moving, then his skin gives a little when you throw to him. its like when you try to punch a hole in a sheet of paper when you only hold the top. its an idea that will only work in theory.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top