How To use sharpmaker correctly

[EM1WSO]

Hi all. N00b here. And, as is typical with n00bs, I could use some help. I'm certain I'm doing something wrong. Problem is that I don't know what.

Rather than attempt to describe whatever it is I'm doing (since that'd be subject to rose-colored bias on my part) I recorded a (low quality) video. First part is 4x playback. If you skip ahead to about 2:17, you can see it at normal speed.

Caveat: I thought I recorded an "After" test of both knives. It was cut off even though I'm certain I remember seeing it in my first view of the clip...

Regardless, the results are: The SOG still stinks. I had to try sawing through a piece of paper and that barely did any good. Stabbing at the paper and tearing with the knife kinda worked, but it isn't really practical. The SAK worked a bit better than it did in the "Before".

Thanks. I appreciate any advice.

P.S. This is using the 40° setting.

 

[kent_michaels]

I’m no expert but my experience with the sharpmaker has been this: if knife is really dull you need the diamond or CBN rods...and it’s still slow work. The sharpmaker is great for keeping knives touched and sharp but IMO not great at making a dull knife sharp.

 

[CasePeanut]

I am a newbie too, but I didn’t see you check for a burr while using the brown stones. It usually takes me more than the recommended 40 passes to get a burr. Maybe 120 or 240 passes the first time. Just keep going till you got a big burr you can feel (and see)

I read the stickies and some of the older threads here and the Spyderco forum several times while first trying the Sharpmaker. Very helpful.

 

[Hammurabi]

You're on the right track but here are some things that might help:

1. It looks like you are canting the blade back and forth. There is nothing wrong with that if you can do it consistently. It will, however, lower the angle of the bevel and take much longer to get to the edge. I try to start out with a neutral wrist in between the two rods and move the wrist as little as possible.

2. Don't count strokes when you are setting the bevel, either one of your knives will easily push cut hair off of your arm or slice paper just from the corner of the brown rods. Stay on the brown until it is sharp then move to the white.

3. The more pressure you use the more likely you are to deform the edge. I just barely touch the sharpmaker with my off hand, so that i get immediate feedback if I am using too much force.

4. Sharpmakers are great for creating microbevels and doing touch-ups but they are very slow for setting the initial bevel. I recommend a $15 four inch COARSE DMT, or larger if you have other larger knives. Using light pressure and a back and forth motion you can set the bevel 10 times as fast. You should be able to slice paper off the coarse diamond before you ever start refining on the sharpmaker. In time you should be able to tree-top hair after using the whites rods.

 

[scottc3]

Vid was a good idea- At the start of your strokes after 2:17 your knife was not vertical, you found vertical after some strokes and looked consistent after. At 6:26-ish your knife angle is not vertical again. Your wrists are hyper-extended, as your a north paw move the unit father to the right and find a more natural wrist angle. Like Hammurabi said be consistent, like throwing a ball, sighting a target, or yes, painting a fence or mowing . At 7:36 it seems your using enough pressure on the rods to move em. With your steels id say lighten your touch, try to feel for the drag against the rods, if you cannot feel drag keep lightening your touch.

I say stay with what you have for these two knives, later, any coarse stone can be laid against the face of your rod and held by rubber band or such, n then flip the unit to get the other side. You can wrap the rods with coarse Wet and Dry sand paper held with binder clips or zip ties or such. Can't really see your sharpie that well but looks like bevel is getting erased. Sal is reported to have defined the SM medium rods as about 12-14 microns- 800-900grit; Your fine rods are about 7-9 microns - 2000-3000 grit,

This afternoon I honed an old beater AG Russell Featherlike AUS8, and a Boker Urban Trapper Petite Ti VG10 with my SM at 30 degrees inclusive. I did not worry about existing bevel angles (both were at least consistent all over and sized correctly by my eye), because both those steels are ground well with the rods silicon carbide (SIC) abrasive. I did not move the rods as I ran the blades over them; I stayed on the medium brown rods for 3 trips around the rods and checked paper cutting sharpness as I went along; Im on the second trip on the fine rods, but put it down for the evening to do other things. I like push cut sharp so will use the fine rods again tomorrow.

 

[bucketstove]

At 7:36 it seems your using enough pressure on the rods to move em. With your steels id say lighten your touch, try to feel for the drag against the rods, if you cannot feel drag keep lightening your touch.

Hi,
The whole sharpmaker is moving.
With every single stroke the entire base is getting pushed forward closer to the camera
even when hes using the corners, even while holding the sharpmaker with his other hand.
The pressure must be extreme.

Hi all. ...
Thanks. I appreciate any advice.

Hi,
How come you give a thumbs up after the gray stones? Because the marker is gone?

Marker removal only tells you you're close to the edge angle,
Like Hammurabi says you should be able to slice paper and shave arm hair before moving onto the fine stones.
And like CasePeanut says, it can take a hundred strokes per side or more the first time you sharpen a blade.
And like scottc3 says, consistency means you get there faster.

I will add that consistency its not as important if you set the bevel (raise a burr) using 15dps setting, and then cut off the burr using 20dps setting ( 5 passes per side using grey rods, then 5 passes per side using white, ultra light way under 1lb on a scale). After the first time, even with extreme natural wobble like me, simple sharpening is no more than 5 minutes.



Can you feel a burr, Can you catch your fingernail on the edge apex?

How hard are you pressing, is it like 10lbs on a scale or 20lbs?

You seem to be using a lot of pounds, and that results in extreme pressure (as in thousands of PSI),
esp using the corners, esp using the sharpmaker 20 degrees per side setting, when the SWISS Army Knife has about a 15dps edge.

So if I were you, I would pick one knife to sharpen until its sharp and you figure out the sharpmaker.

I would pick the swiss army knife because factory edge angle ought to be in 15 degree per side range.
Then using the flats of grey stones only, using 15dps/30 degree setting ,
with about 1lb but no more than 3lb of force,
do 100 passes on the left side, then 100 pases on the right side, then check for burr.

Use some lube (water, soapy water) on the stones.

Do 100 passes per side until you get a burr ( a curl of the edge you can catch with your fingernail).
The first sharpening you do it it might take more than 5 minutes, the second time it wont take more than 5 minutes.

After you raise a burr,
Then do 10 alternating passes per side ( 1 left 1 right ) using the same 15dps/30degree setting on grey stones. This is standing up the burr.

Then change grey stones to 20dps/40 degree setting and do 5 alternating passes per side going very light, way less than 1lb of force. This is cutting off the burr.
Then check for burr with fingernail. If burr remains , repeat another 5 alternating, and stop when no burr. You might need to clean stone before deburring.


Then change to white stones with 20dps/40 degree setting and do 5 alternating passes per side going very light, way less than 1lb of force.

And you're done.

Should be able to shave and push cut papers after the deburring.
Should be able to whittle head hairs and other high polish tricks after white stones.

Give this practice routine 5minutes a day (or 15min a day) and see how far you can get.
Think about what you're doing and what is happening. Take notes. Ask questions. Repeat.

When you're in the mood for more reading,
check this pretty good list of debugging steps for getting silly sharp with the sharpmaker
Spyderco Sharpmaker Advanced Sharpening Curriculum / Trouble sharpening super blue - Spyderco Forums
Remember to finish with ultra light passes (as much under 100 grams as you can )
fine-stones-making-a-duller-edge.1593478/#post-18200417 ... also talks about what 1lb for shaping feels like if you dont have a scale, like when two fingertips turn white, like brushing your teeth , and for deburring/apexing grams/ounces like touching a sharp pencil point

 

[tomsch]

This is similar to the technique I use. By using up and down strokes it helps to minimize angle variation. Given that I only use my SharpMaker for touch-ups the pressure is rather light on the smoothest stones possible. I typically do a light touch-up on my knives 2-3x per week using the ultrafine stones. If I have a knife that becomes too dull for a touch-up then it goes back on my Wicked Edge.