User advantages of CPM154 versus S30V

T

thombrogan

Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
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From what I've read over here and possibly over there, CPM154 is easier to grind and heat-treat than S30V and 154CM and offers an edge with less surprizes than 154CM (same with S30V) and polishes easier than S30V.

Aside from polishing to a higher finish and reducing the chance your knifemaker of choice will commit suicide during grinding or heat-treating, and being the new steel on the block, what other benefits does CPM154 offer the knife user over S30V?

Many thanks!
 
Is the price difference something the user will see? It's not like canvass micarta versus bark mammoth ivory is it?

Dangit! Now my noggin is entertaining fantasies of cooking knives in CPM154 with bark mammoth ivory scales as ground by Wilson, Gingrich, and Harner and I don't have the space or funds for them. :mad:
 
Steel, 1 piece, 1/8x1x72:

  • Code: 
    440-C     $33.66
  • Code: 
    ATS-34    $34.27
  • Code: 
    154-CM    $45.11
  • Code: 
    CPM-154   $65.61
  • Code: 
    S30V      $80.03
  • Code: 
    S90V     $106.91

Handle slabs
  • Mammoth Bark Ivory (2 pieces)1-1/4 x 4-1/4 $74.95
  • Black Canvas Micarta (1piece) 1-1/2 x 10 $7.95
 
Thanks, Gabe!

I asked because I thought most of a knife's price came from the public demand for the maker's labor. W2 doesn't cost too much, but if it's been worked over by a mastersmith, the resultant knife will cost more than one in S30V.
 
There's a reason for the username :D If you'd like to try out the necker, send me a PM and I'll ship it to you. the other is the only decent kitchen knife I have, so I kinda need it
 
Thombrogan there is one thing I noticed about S-30V from the very first blade I ever had made with it. It truly doesn't polish very well at all. No matter what you do it always has that kind of "dull gray" finish to it.

I personally like S-30V and I currently have 2 Spyderco users with S-30V blades. However It is not my favorite steel by any means. I actually kind of like it's predecessor 440V ( S-60V) even better than it.

I can only think of one other blade steel that has as poor of polishing properties as S-30V. I have wondered what alloys or manufacturing process has attributed to it's poor polishing qualities :confused:
 
thombrogan said:
... what other benefits does CPM154 offer the knife user over S30V?
Click to expand...

It allows you to participate in a fad. RWL34, a P/M version of ATS-34, was already being used in knives when S30V was introduced and S30V was argued to be superior very strongly.

-Cliff
 
There's a possibility it has somewhat greater toughness, at least based purely on carbide volume. Though Crucible lists 154CM as having 17.5% carbide volume, I recently saw some Thermo-Calc information that listed it as 9% with an austenitizing temperature of 2000F, while Crucible lists S30V as having 14.5% carbide volume. I would really like to know what the actual carbide volume is; I think there's a possibility that the 17.5% is an old measurement that was done incorrectly.
 
Larrin said:
Though Crucible lists 154CM as having 17.5% carbide volume, I recently saw some Thermo-Calc information that listed it as 9% with an austenitizing temperature of 2000F ...
Click to expand...

Verhoeven compares these two in his book on knife steels. You would expect the percentage to be reduced as the austenization temperature is increased. You can drop it to zero if you go high enough. In general, theory (thermocalc) can also NEVER over rule experiment. It did seem odd to be though that it was so high compared to its distance off the carbon saturation line compared to 440C. I asked around and asked for a lever rule breakdown which explained it with no responce. If you had micrographs of them it should be fairly obvious as well assuming you are arguing the carbide volume is 50% different.

-Cliff
 
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