Using a saw for the under cut

[knifetester]

Sometimes when I have to take down bigger sticks and I can't use a chainssaw and my hand saws are too small, or I need the stick to fall in a specific place, I will use an axe to fell. I find that using a saw to make the undercut makes the job much easier.

Basically, I get a much better penetration with each blow (the head sinks in deeper), and can throw way bigger chips and binding ceases to become an issue for the most part. Makes it easier all the way around.

As well, with the undercut sawn instead of chopped out, I can get a much lower stump which is needed when landscaping. The reason I can get a lower stump is that I can put the undercut lower to the ground than I could with an axe because I could never get an angle of approach that low with an axe unless I was standing in a ditch.

I am looking for ways of improving my techinique in this area. Does anyone else do this, and if so can you explain what you are doing. Diagrams or pics would be hugely helpful.

What I am wondering is things like how deep do you make your undercut (usually I am limited by saw length), do you make your notch narrower than when double notch felling, what angles of approach do you use for different size and types of wood, is this technique more or less effective on slow growth (tight ring) wood, etc.

Has anyone tried this using a big knife as the chopping tool, if so are their different techiques you have found more effective than others?

I am also interested in hearing if anone knows why a sawn unercut makes an axe bite deep and throw bigger chips?

I find that sometimes just throwing around different techniques can lead to a better way of doing things, which will make my life easier.

Thanks for your help,
KT

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Does anyone else do this ...

Usually not because I like the axe work, but it is vastly more efficient.

What I am wondering is things like how deep do you make your undercut (usually I am limited by saw length), do you make your notch narrower than when double notch felling, what angles of approach do you use for different size and types of wood, is this technique more or less effective on slow growth (tight ring) wood, etc.

Cut the same depth you would if just axe felling. With an undercut you can open a massive notch with the axe because the chips just fall out, spruce with an undercut can chop easier than pine without one. You can also lower the angle of attack, to reduce glancing and still get massive penetration. It works best on really knarly wood which is hellish hard to cut.

Has anyone tried this using a big knife as the chopping tool ...

Yes, the only problem here is since the contact area is larger you are often force to work in multiple notches as the penetation is too low to clear wood effectively unless you are cutting something like clear pine. I prefer blades for small wood which the knives can open up full notches, poles for shelter ok, logs for cutting 2x4 out of, I use an axe.

I am also interested in hearing if anone knows why a sawn unercut makes an axe bite deep and throw bigger chips?

There is little to no compressive force on the blade because the chip can move freely away from the knife. You see the same thing on the upper notch if you have to double notch on dense woods. Without an undercut the knife actually has to squash the wood to make way for its passage. This is why the chip braking cuts are far easier than the initial cuts which go dead into the wood.

-Cliff

 

[knifetester]

Wow, this one came back from the dead!

Thanks for the info Cliff, a lot to digest.

Interesting to see an explanation for things I have observed. I wonder why this technique is not often discussed, especially on the outdoors forums?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I wonder why this technique is not often discussed, especially on the outdoors forums?

Not a lot of people do dedicated axe felling now. It takes a fairly large piece of wood for it to be really efficient and it is more of a long term fatigue issue, so it isn't something which comes up cutting the occasional piece of firewood when camping.

For "survival", you would want to be familiar for conservation of energy plus safety and overall tool versatility. A small blade + baton + saw will take down a large piece of wood in a hurry and can be shown to fairly inexperienced people who would likely cut their own legs off faster than the tree with a full size axe.

Most knife people will take for granted basic tool use, I have given blades to people to cut a piece of wood in half and turned around a few minutes later to see them trying to smash the knife right straight through the wood, no notch, just like they were trying to slice a potato in half.

As with everything, it gives you one more option, the more you know the better you are prepared.

-Cliff