Using a Sharpmaker for edge finishing after freehanding on bench stones

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maximus83

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I've been doing what I know some other folks here do as a general sharpening strategy: freehand on bench stones, refine your edge on Sharpmaker ceramics (the fine and ultra-fine hones), and then of course stropping.

For the folks that have been doing this a while, how do you use the Sharpmaker effectively as part of this strategy? Specifically:

* Given that you put a certain--usually unknown--edge bevel on your freehanded blade, how do you stay consistent with that bevel given that SM is pretty much limited to 2 choices (30 or 40 degrees inclusive)? Or do you just not worry about it, and assume that with the SM, you'll use say the 30-degree angle and add a micro-bevel to the existing bevel?

Note: I know how a few people do this, I think Obsessed does it this way: rather than use the SM angled holder for the hones, you clamp the knife in a vise with edge pointing up, and actually hold on to the spyderco hones by hand and run them along the edge from heel to tip, following the angle of the bevel as closely as possible. This sounds like it could work, but I wondered if anybody just uses the SM as designed, as part of their sharpening after freehanding.
 
maximus83 said:
I've been doing what I know some other folks here do as a general sharpening strategy: freehand on bench stones, refine your edge on Sharpmaker ceramics (the fine and ultra-fine hones), and then of course stropping.

For the folks that have been doing this a while, how do you use the Sharpmaker effectively as part of this strategy? Specifically:

* Given that you put a certain--usually unknown--edge bevel on your freehanded blade, how do you stay consistent with that bevel given that SM is pretty much limited to 2 choices (30 or 40 degrees inclusive)? Or do you just not worry about it, and assume that with the SM, you'll use say the 30-degree angle and add a micro-bevel to the existing bevel?

Note: I know how a few people do this, I think Obsessed does it this way: rather than use the SM angled holder for the hones, you clamp the knife in a vise with edge pointing up, and actually hold on to the spyderco hones by hand and run them along the edge from heel to tip, following the angle of the bevel as closely as possible. This sounds like it could work, but I wondered if anybody just uses the SM as designed, as part of their sharpening after freehanding.
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I have done that, though usually without the vise (I 'freehand' both the hone and blade). For me, as I have become more comfortable with freehanding, it's allowed me more control over the angle, and it also allows me to 'sight down' the blade edge (as if looking down the barrel of a rifle, toward the target), to get a better look at flush contact between the bevel and the hone. I angle the hone slightly away, diagonal to the blade's edge, and lightly (very, very lightly) slide the hone away, along the bevel to the tip and back. I'm actually finding this a very effective way to 'flip' a wire edge to the other side, also, using slightly more pressure. Did this last night, in fact, to flip a wire on a Case's sheepsfoot blade I'd just re-bevelled. BTW, any ceramic 'pocket-sized' hone works for this. More often than not, I'll use either a Spyderco DoubleStuff hone, or in the case of the one I did yesterday, I used a Fine ceramic hone from my Lansky kit.

I've also used the stock angle settings of the Sharpmaker's rods, to put a quick micro-bevel on an edge. My edges are almost always more acute than 30 inclusive, sometimes much more so. Therefore, I'll often use the 30 setting as the angle for the micro bevel. All that matters to me, is that they're inside those margins (no greater than 40 inclusive, in other words). I don't worry if my edge angles don't match the SM's settings exactly, because for honing or polishing the bevel itself, I prefer to do that freehand anyway (as described above).
 
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I usually freehand to approx. 30deg or less then micro bevel with the sharpmaker( 30 or 40 depending on the knife/use). I use the SM for touchups and it makes sharpening super quick because I'm only working on the very apex of the edge instead of the entire bevel. Every so often I'll take a knife back to the stones to reestablish the bevel then start over again with the SM for a micro bevel/touchups.
 
How can you guys freehanding make sure to get angles right? 30 or 40 or whatever?

I am very interested in freehanding too but very worried about not sharpening a knife at the right angle. Also but how I get the angle figured out while holding the knife and repeating it.
 
sir_mike said:
How can you guys freehanding make sure to get angles right? 30 or 40 or whatever?

I am very interested in freehanding too but very worried about not sharpening a knife at the right angle. Also but how I get the angle figured out while holding the knife and repeating it.
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Bottom line, the best way to get a 'feel' for the angle is to practice (practice, practice). It's generally not critical to try to hold for an exact number of degrees (that's basically impossible to do by freehand anyway). Much more important to watch the metal being removed on the bevel (blacken it with a Sharpie first), and see where the metal comes off. Focus on making the bevels flat and clean, all the way to the apex of the edge.

An easy way to get a good bevel from the start, is to use a guided setup like DMT's Aligner, Lansky or Gatco, etc. Put a quality bevel on it with one of these, and they'll be much easier to maintain on the Sharpmaker (or any other way you choose). Even with a guided system, you don't have to make your bevels at exactly 30 or 40 degrees (unless you want to). So long as your bevels are inside the 40 degree limit (or inside 30, as I prefer), the Sharpmaker can handle them. Problems only arise if the bevel angles are wider than 40 degrees, which means the Sharpmaker's rods won't contact the edge, but the shoulder of the bevels instead.

For what it's worth, I've never sharpened a blade with a specific number in mind, for the angle. I've found it's fairly natural to hold at an angle that's less than 40 degrees, at least, and usually below 30. I like my edges 'thin' (acute), and just generally keep the blade low on the hone. Doesn't take long to get a feel for what's 'right' for your needs and uses.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Bottom line, the best way to get a 'feel' for the angle is to practice (practice, practice). It's generally not critical to try to hold for an exact number of degrees (that's basically impossible to do by freehand anyway). Much more important to watch the metal being removed on the bevel (blacken it with a Sharpie first), and see where the metal comes off. Focus on making the bevels flat and clean, all the way to the apex of the edge.

An easy way to get a good bevel from the start, is to use a guided setup like DMT's Aligner, Lansky or Gatco, etc. Put a quality bevel on it with one of these, and they'll be much easier to maintain on the Sharpmaker (or any other way you choose). Even with a guided system, you don't have to make your bevels at exactly 30 or 40 degrees (unless you want to). So long as your bevels are inside the 40 degree limit (or inside 30, as I prefer), the Sharpmaker can handle them. Problems only arise if the bevel angles are wider than 40 degrees, which means the Sharpmaker's rods won't contact the edge, but the shoulder of the bevels instead.

For what it's worth, I've never sharpened a blade with a specific number in mind, for the angle. I've found it's fairly natural to hold at an angle that's less than 40 degrees, at least, and usually below 30. I like my edges 'thin' (acute), and just generally keep the blade low on the hone. Doesn't take long to get a feel for what's 'right' for your needs and uses.
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Thanks for the info. Could you recommend what stones (brand and grits to get) without breaking the bank? If you would like, you can email that info to me. Appreciate any help!

I do have the sharpmaker and a strop.
 
I like obsessed with edges advice. His statement "Doesn't take long to get a feel for what's 'right' for your needs and uses." rings true for me.

I couldn't tell you what angles I have my knives sharpened to, but depending on the knife and what it gets used for, the angles are slightly different.

As for stones, my most used stone is a Norton combination India stone. I have several others, but this one I use the most. One thing that helped me a lot with my freehand sharpening was watching a friend sharpen knives. He'd check the edge I put on my knife, then touch it up for me and give me a few tips.

Ric
 
Phydeaux said:
I like obsessed with edges advice. His statement "Doesn't take long to get a feel for what's 'right' for your needs and uses." rings true for me.

I couldn't tell you what angles I have my knives sharpened to, but depending on the knife and what it gets used for, the angles are slightly different.

As for stones, my most used stone is a Norton combination India stone. I have several others, but this one I use the most. One thing that helped me a lot with my freehand sharpening was watching a friend sharpen knives. He'd check the edge I put on my knife, then touch it up for me and give me a few tips.

Ric
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Does that Norton combination stone have grit on it? Can you tell me more about it and where I can find it so I can check it out?

Thx.
 
sir_mike said:
How can you guys freehanding make sure to get angles right? 30 or 40 or whatever?

I am very interested in freehanding too but very worried about not sharpening a knife at the right angle. Also but how I get the angle figured out while holding the knife and repeating it.
Click to expand...

To add to Obsessed's advice, you don't think about it in terms of sharpening at a specific angle. It's not like you hold the knife to the stone and say, "I shall now sharpen this knife at an angle of 19 degrees per side" :p. Instead, you will be sharpening by feel, relative to the existing edge. You'll either be trying to match an existing edge angle (sharpie trick works great for beginners, and non-beginners), or maybe you will lay the bevel back a little bit, or lift the spine up a bit to make a microbevel. Over time you learn what sort of edge shape you like, and what it feels like when sharpening that kind of edge. You can make fine adjustments intuitively. There is not a whole lot of reason to know the exact angles except to compare performance between knives.
 
I hold the Sharpmaker hone in my hand,eyeball the angle,use very light pressure,and run my knife acrossed it several times,then switch hands and do the same on the other side of the edge.Then I use my strop with green compound.If I buy a new knife and it's dull,I use my diamond benchstones first.Once I have a blade sharp it stays that way by my Sharpmaker hones and strop.If I need to use my edc knife for anything that particular day I always touch up my edge.I'm kind of freaky about my edges that way.
 
sir_mike said:
Thanks for the info. Could you recommend what stones (brand and grits to get) without breaking the bank? If you would like, you can email that info to me. Appreciate any help!

I do have the sharpmaker and a strop.
Click to expand...

For versatility, there are a lot of options for stones. I don't have one yet, but the Norton India and Crystolon stones have a great reputation. I like to use diamond hones a lot (DMT), and have been happy with those. For starters, a simple Coarse/Fine combo can do an awful lot. I'd also highly recommend trying out simple wet/dry sandpaper, used against a hard backing like glass. It's a great and inexpensive way to get a feel for a wide range of grits and aggressiveness (speed), and is capable of producing any type of edge finish you like, from very coarse & toothy, to a mirror shine, and everything in between.
 
I am actually looking for recommendations on what grit stones I should get? How many different ones I would need? Etc.

I understand that there are a ton of different ones and that is why I am looking for more specific recommendations of brands and grits needed.
 
sir_mike said:
I am actually looking for recommendations on what grit stones I should get? How many different ones I would need? Etc.

I understand that there are a ton of different ones and that is why I am looking for more specific recommendations of brands and grits needed.
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What specific grits you need, pretty much depends on your own preferences for edge finish. My comment earlier, with regard to the Coarse/Fine combo stones, meant to imply that they'd give you enough versatility for both re-bevelling (heavy metal removal) and then putting a good working edge on. That is the minimum I'd start with. Beyond that, it's pretty much up to individual preference. It's very difficult to recommend anything in that regard, because you'll need to see, for yourself, how a basic C/F works for you. Then start looking for specifics as to how to upgrade or refine what you've got. As for brands, I'd still take a look at the ones I mentioned earlier (Norton, DMT). Others here like to use waterstones also; lots of possibilities there, too. I haven't used them yet, so can't really recommend any particulars.
 
From what I have seen, the Norton's are oil stones so let me ask you all this!

Is it better to get OIL or WATER stones to sharpen with?
 
sir_mike said:
From what I have seen, the Norton's are oil stones so let me ask you all this!

Is it better to get OIL or WATER stones to sharpen with?
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Uh oh... think I just heard a can o' worms being opened up. That's a whole other topic in itself :D

I won't render an opinion here (don't have one on this), but I'll bet you'll get lots of input from others here. Norton does make waterstones too, BTW.
 
I am just looking for a good working edge so I figured a medium/fine or coarse/fine, whoever the set is made. I seen something like a 220/1000 or 400/1000.

Does that sound right? I was also looking into the Japanese waterstones cause I heard good things about them but wanted to keep the cost down to around $40 for what I should need.
 
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