using kukri technique with other choppers

[olpappy]

who here uses the same technique for chopping with a kukri with other choppers and how much of a difference did you notice?

I found that using a kukri style wrist flick just before impact also works great with a 12" blade 1/8" thickness golok, the handle is shaped in such a way to really encourage this technique. It also seems to cut more efficiently with machetes. On the other hand, when using a hatchet it didn't seem to make much difference for me.

 

[Dirtbiker]

I agree that using the wrist flick makes the most out of whatever blade you are using. Never tried it with a hatchet though.

 

[sweetcostarica]

Axes and Hatchets have a different technique of use entirely.

I have always called this the Southeast Asian technique instead of the kukri technique because everyone in SE Asia (& Central/South America) uses this style everyday. With the Kukri ( and others like the Machete, Golok, Parang) you should use the loose two finger technique and use the weight of the blade to do the work. This saves energy and damage to you handle and blade. It also takes longer which is fine in most situations.
Note: The Western technique is a really firm grip on your handle and a powerful swing onto the target. The objective is speed with fewer chops/slices.
In my opinion Southeast Asian technique is better for all large Knives. It's benefits outweigh any negative.

Below is the Southeast Asian technique with a Machete.
[video=youtube;V4wb32tkS6c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4wb32tkS6c[/video]

 

[twolfnm]

If you mean spinning your wrist as you strike, that is a technique used for many tools/weapons. Heck, it's the way a pro swings a large hammer/rigging ax. Not to bore y'all with the physics, but put simply, force = mass x acceleration and that increases your acceleration. As SCR said, it's a different technique between one and two handed swings, but the principle is the same. When you start with a wide grip on a sledge or ax or whatever, then slide your dominant hand down to meet the stationary one, you're basically doing the same thing. You're adding a spin to a swing. Yeah, I know. That's crude terminology, but I think y'all get the point.

I'd tell y'all about the variation of that in using a katana, but that is more complex, and this ain't a sword forum.

Having said alla that, SCR is correct again in that when you do any of these, you should only use enough gripping power to hold onto the tool/weapon. That gets into physiology, but the bottom line? A "death grip" will mean the early death of a lot of your body parts.

The guy in the video has it down, and you can actually get MORE force out of your toy with a looser grip. Go watch a really good framer one-whack 16d sinkers with a 28 oz Vaughan rigging ax. It's all the same thing.

So I'll disagree with SCR on one point. It's really quicker. But you can hack/swing/slam away all day long if you're in good shape. And you'll still be able to do it 40 years later ...

 

[stvpourciau]

I'd tell y'all about the variation of that in using a katana, but that is more complex, and this ain't a sword forum.

Haha, I've gripped my machete like a Boken when I really want to cut something

It vastly improves the performance of my $6 piece of sharpened aluminum siding from Wal-Mart! xP

 

[olpappy]

Haha, I've gripped my machete like a Boken when I really want to cut something

It vastly improves the performance of my $6 piece of sharpened aluminum siding from Wal-Mart! xP

Are you saying that you have a machete that cuts as well as a piece of aluminum siding, or do you have a piece of aluminum siding that cuts as well as a machete?

 

[stvpourciau]

Are you saying that you have a machete that cuts as well as a piece of aluminum siding, or do you have a piece of aluminum siding that cuts as well as a machete?

In saying that I bought a cheap machete from Wal-Mart and it's made out of the exact same material as a piece of aluminum siding that I have laying out in my yard, absolutely identical.

It was Ozak Trails brand.

Wanting to invest $40 bucks in a KA-BAR Kukri Machete machete now.

 

[olpappy]

Wow, that sounds quite amazing. I would love to see a pic of that machete next to the aluminum siding!!

 

[muddog15]

In all of my 30 yrs. I have used the wrist snap method, it works. I have tried the loose fingers way of chopping and it doesnt work any where as good, the tool bounces off the log instead of putting the force of the swing into the the log.

 

[muddog15]

I watched the video, that grip will cause you to loose control and the tool has always come out of my hand. While a death grip is wrong also and will cause a lot of muscle fatigue. Imo, the wrist snap is the only way to used a bigg chopping tool.

 

[sweetcostarica]

I watched the video, that grip will cause you to lose control and the tool has always come out of my hand. While a death grip is wrong also and will cause a lot of muscle fatigue. Imo, the wrist snap is the only way to used a bigg chopping tool.

Hey muddog15 everyone watched that video and no one saw Joe Flowers loose control and the tool didn't come out of his hand with the two finger grip/pinch grip. Maybe you're doing something wrong?

I agree the Southeast Asian technique is not your preferred method but to say its wrong is not a wise statement and comes more from lack of knowledge & experience with it.

Below is a photo by Berkley

This IS the grip of the Gurkhas, the Moro, the Malaysians, Latins, etc when using their big blades. It's has been perfected by them to be effective and save energy. If you observe the ends of most of the knives (that use this grip) their handles have a bell or bulge at the end to keep the hand from slipping off. Remember chopping wood and using their knives is life or death for them not a hobby for most "Westerners".

Your opinion would change I think if you could trade places with one of the villagers for a day.

 

[stvpourciau]

Wow, that sounds quite amazing. I would love to see a pic of that machete next to the aluminum siding!!

Will do

 

[olpappy]

Here is a link to the golok I got recently, the handle shape pretty much shows you exactly how the tool wants to be used. Once you get it in your hand it is almost impossible to not use a wrist snap like casting a fishing pole.

http://www.machetespecialists.com/malaysian-11-golok-bersarung.html

Here are some other different shaped handles, the one with the most curve in it encourages this technique, the ones which are a bit straighter don't really give your hand the same type of intuitive message.

One comment about the video above, in it he mentions putting a lanyard on the handle, on Old Jimbo's site IIRC he recommends not to put a lanyard when using a large chopper b/c if you lose control the lanyard may pull the blade back towards you, better to just let the blade fly away from you if there aren't others nearby.

Also towards the end of the video when he is cutting the branches on a few of the strokes he follows through all the way around in a circle, I suppose it looks cool but generally when using a big chopper I like to make sure my momentum stops just past whatever is being cut, for example with an axe you don't want to come around back towards your body with it.

 

[olpappy]

In all of my 30 yrs. I have used the wrist snap method, it works. I have tried the loose fingers way of chopping and it doesnt work any where as good, the tool bounces off the log instead of putting the force of the swing into the the log.

Wrist snap and loose fingers are not 2 different techniques, they are 2 parts of the same technique, they go together. Of course your fingers need to be tight enough to keep your grip. Whether the tool bounces off or wedges in the wood has to do with many factors, I think the foremost would be the hardness/dryness of the wood. You don't always want the blade to sink deep or wedge, sometimes it can be more efficient to cut with smaller chips depending on the situation.

 

[sweetcostarica]

Wrist snap and loose fingers are not 2 different techniques, they are 2 parts of the same technique, they go together.

This we know (most of us) and thanks for bring it up. In knife designer Joe Flowers' video above he doesn't say a word about snapping your wrist. Why? Because when using the loose two finger grip it is automatic to snap your wrist and close your fingers onto the handle fully at the end of the swing. But to get to that you use the loose grip. maddog15 said this is a wrong technique. I am here to say that millions of Southeast Asians are not wrong using their grip with their handles.


The Moro, Gurkha, Mong, etc. may use other grips but the loose two finger grip is by far their favorite.

How to use the loose two finger SE Asian grip.
The following technique will maximize cutting efficiency & minimize fatigue.
1. Firmly grip angled-down handle with forefinger & thumb and loosely grip with three remaining fingers.


2. Cock hand back at the wrist for forward, backward, upward & downward slashes.


3. And finally; In a relaxed fashion, sweep & direct the working part of the blade (about 12 to 14-cm back from the tip) to the point of focus. At the moment of impact un-cock the wrist & ‘snap’ the three fingers firmly around the handle.


Lastly olpappy, I agree 100% with you on never putting lanyard on the handle of a big blade. All real traditional handles (Kukri, Parang, Golok, etc.) do not have lanyard holes. This is a western marketing thing. You are asking for trouble with a lanyard on a big blade.

 

[ndoghouse]

Lastly olpappy, I agree 100% with you on never putting lanyard on the handle of a big blade. All real traditional handles (Kukri, Parang, Golok, etc.) do not have lanyard holes. This is a western marketing thing. You are asking for trouble with a lanyard on a big blade.

I will second that! If the blade is tied to your wrist and is shorter than your arm (roughly) there is a good chance if it gets loose from you it will swing above or below your arm. Long blades coming back at you can pop you in the head, back of the head:barf:, torso, arm or whatever else it can reach which is pretty much anywhere. Bad deal!

 

[iliam]

Will disagree on the lanyard. It is a common practice in the military to have lanyards as means to attach your equipment to bandolier, belts, clothing, etc. to avoid losing the items in the field. It can be used on any piece of equipment, especially most important ones for survival (like a rifle, which has a sling for that purpose). It is user's choice whether to actually attach it to the arm. You don't have to. I have lanyards on my flashlights, and just attached a very crude one to my HI Sirupate (just in case).

 

[ndoghouse]

I can remember more than once whacking into yellow jacket nests and having to ditch my blade. Another time with chainsaw. Im glad my blade wasnt tied on then! Something to consider...lanyard for transport is one thing but in use another.

 

[iliam]

Yes, I meant it mostly as a means not lose one in the field, which sometimes would mean a near certain death anyway. For me, I coiled the cord around close to the handle's butt as much as I could, and use it as an additional bumper, basically to prevent the kuk from slipping my hand. I keep my arm outside the lanyard. Or I can use it for tying the khukri to my backpack's frame. Heck, even Mowgli used to tie his knife to his neck

 

[sweetcostarica]

Hi iliam we are talking about safety in the use of our big blades not carry hence the tittle: "using kukri technique with other choppers".
The lanyards that I see on non-traditional big knives are almost always for wearing while using the tool. This is dangerous and the Native people who use these tools know this and if you look at their traditional big knives you will not see any lanyard holes period. They also generally don't use anything to "strap" their blades in or onto their stuff. So I hope you are not going to say millions of Southeast Asians are wrong too.

Above: Various pictures of people carrying big blades and no lanyards.

Of course as a means not lose one in the field you can do many other things without having lanyard holes in your knife if you want. But if you have to have a lanyard go for it but it is totally unnecessary. I haven't lost a blade yet and never use a lanyard but that just me.