It seems to me that knives priced over $500 reflect materials more than craft and design. You know the drill: "Multi-colored Damascus blade, Mastodon handles with black pearl, a stunner..." Are they a good purchase? Sure they're beautiful and may go up in value but is that a sound reason to acquire more than a few?
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Utilitarian vs. Utopian: Are High End Knives Worth It?
- Thread starter davidm
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Mine is not popular attitude on this site---but if I'm spending $500 its going to be a firearm of some type---and NOT a knife------the most I've spent on any single blade was $130 several years ago---and that's pretty much my upper limit on any bladed implement.
It all depends on what its worth is to you. If I had the money I may spend that much but my current most expensive knife is a Large Classic Sebenza. My only problem is that I like to use most of my knives and with a knife that expensive I fear it would gain a permanent spot in my drawer.
The most I've paid for a knife is 50$. I've traded for 120$ Spydercos, but didn't drop any bills on that myself. I don't see myself spending much more than I have on a new knife. I plan to buy a Manix since trading mine away (It was CE, wanted PE and the things I got out of it are more useful to me now than the Manix would of been) but I'll buy it used here so I don't have to pay over 100. I might buy myself one expensive fixed blade in the 75-150$ range, but so far 10$ Moras serve me well.
I buy solely for use. I can appreciate the high-end materials and extreme fit and finish of a Sebenza, but to me it's not worth paying 30 times as much as an Opinel for those things when an Opinel will do the actual cutting chores I do just as well. I'm extremely happy with the knives I have and most of them I'd be willing to pay double to triple their price. Knives like SAKs, Opinels, Byrds, Mora's and some of Bucks offerings have served me extremely well, never letting me down. The fact that I traded away nice knives like tha Manix and Paramilitary for the aforementioned knives just exemplifies my viewpoint. A 125$ Manix just doesn't offer enough over a 25$ G10 Byrd for me to care to buy it. I have to really like a knife to want to spend that much, and it's still going to be a rare purchase. I'll eventually buy another Manix, but I have no problems putting it off for a year or so.
I buy solely for use. I can appreciate the high-end materials and extreme fit and finish of a Sebenza, but to me it's not worth paying 30 times as much as an Opinel for those things when an Opinel will do the actual cutting chores I do just as well. I'm extremely happy with the knives I have and most of them I'd be willing to pay double to triple their price. Knives like SAKs, Opinels, Byrds, Mora's and some of Bucks offerings have served me extremely well, never letting me down. The fact that I traded away nice knives like tha Manix and Paramilitary for the aforementioned knives just exemplifies my viewpoint. A 125$ Manix just doesn't offer enough over a 25$ G10 Byrd for me to care to buy it. I have to really like a knife to want to spend that much, and it's still going to be a rare purchase. I'll eventually buy another Manix, but I have no problems putting it off for a year or so.
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Not all knives that are above $500 are damascus etc. The Scott Cook Lochsa that I ordered is going to be about $600.And that is worth every penny to me. Have you seen Matt Cucchiara's work? He does some amazing carving of titanium! His knives are worth every penny!! I use my customs.
Art knives and collector knives serve a different purpose than cutting. They are to marvel over and to enjoy collecting. In that sense, yes they are worth it. They are not about price/performance ratios. For a collector of art knives, a Native is a horrible rip off. $40 for something worth $0 to them. To a user, a Native is a great bargain and a blacklip Pearl dress knife is overpriced for no practical benefit. Different wants, different knives.
I am not into art knives and just "collect" users. And I use them. I tend not to want to spend a lot of money on a knife in the name of fancy looks. I like to spend money when the money goes to good materials (in the sense of performance and durability), and good workmanship.
A Sebenza is expensive and high-end, and as a user, it is worth it. You can spend more for a fancy version if you'd like, but the basic models are very plain users that happen to cost a lot for very good reasons.
I now only buy Bob Dozier knives (specifically his full-tang user-grade fixed blades). They aren't cheap. But they are very simple, high-performance work knives. They are worth the money for their performance, workmanship and comfort (and their sheaths!). They don't cost what they cost because of fancy materials or complicated construction (though being customs you can get it however you like including fancy materials).
I admit, I do opt for nicer-looking materials, but in the grand sceme of things, the price increase is nominal. I can get another black Micarta Dozier, or I can spend a little more and get Maple Burl or Carbon Fiber. The price goes up and the performance remains the same (or even goes down as some of the pretty materials are not as strong as Micarta), but I like a little variety. Since the price increase is pretty small, I don't mind it. But when I can get a nice-looking Dozier for $200-$500, I wouldn't want to spend $1000 on a knife that performs no better just because the finish is a higher grit, or it has ivory scales. But a lot of people would consider a Dozier to be too expensive when they can get by with a Mora.
It is all reletive. It depends on what you want, and what you want to spend. Knives range in price from $1 to tens of thousands of dollars, and there are people who want to buy knives in every price range, and people that think anything more expensive than their limit is crazy.
For some people it is all about performance/price ratio. For many others there is more to it than that: Quality, looks, rarity, feel, workmanship, precision, honesty of the maker, etc... One could say that there is more to owning a knife than cutting stuff.
I am not into art knives and just "collect" users. And I use them. I tend not to want to spend a lot of money on a knife in the name of fancy looks. I like to spend money when the money goes to good materials (in the sense of performance and durability), and good workmanship.
A Sebenza is expensive and high-end, and as a user, it is worth it. You can spend more for a fancy version if you'd like, but the basic models are very plain users that happen to cost a lot for very good reasons.
I now only buy Bob Dozier knives (specifically his full-tang user-grade fixed blades). They aren't cheap. But they are very simple, high-performance work knives. They are worth the money for their performance, workmanship and comfort (and their sheaths!). They don't cost what they cost because of fancy materials or complicated construction (though being customs you can get it however you like including fancy materials).
I admit, I do opt for nicer-looking materials, but in the grand sceme of things, the price increase is nominal. I can get another black Micarta Dozier, or I can spend a little more and get Maple Burl or Carbon Fiber. The price goes up and the performance remains the same (or even goes down as some of the pretty materials are not as strong as Micarta), but I like a little variety. Since the price increase is pretty small, I don't mind it. But when I can get a nice-looking Dozier for $200-$500, I wouldn't want to spend $1000 on a knife that performs no better just because the finish is a higher grit, or it has ivory scales. But a lot of people would consider a Dozier to be too expensive when they can get by with a Mora.
It is all reletive. It depends on what you want, and what you want to spend. Knives range in price from $1 to tens of thousands of dollars, and there are people who want to buy knives in every price range, and people that think anything more expensive than their limit is crazy.
For some people it is all about performance/price ratio. For many others there is more to it than that: Quality, looks, rarity, feel, workmanship, precision, honesty of the maker, etc... One could say that there is more to owning a knife than cutting stuff.
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I spend alot of money on my users just as my collectors, I dropped almost 500 on my Matthew Roberts Bowie thats in my avatar and I use it and use it, ALOT its one of my favs. I edc my Gunhammer(675) and my striders and sebbies. I dont think the money you spent on it should limit whether you use it or not. Now when I buy something like a Kressler I am going to keep it, look at it and appreciate it for what it is, but I wouldnt use it as one day if I hit a rough spot I know I could sell it and probably get exactly what I paid for it if not more. I buy alot of knives especially in damascus or rare woods etc that are simply art to me. I love how they were made and the work that went into them.
This debate could go either way. I have said this before and I'll say it again. There is something diff about a custom knife or one that you had made spicifically for you. Custom knives have that lil something extra...that piece of the maker in them, many times you converse for hours over the phone or through emails getting down details, changing things and just chatting. That is part of why I spend alot of money on customs.
"It is all reletive. It depends on what you want, and what you want to spend. Knives range in price from $1 to tens of thousands of dollars, and there are people who want to buy knives in every price range, and people that think anything more expensive than their limit is crazy." hair.
Exactly
This debate could go either way. I have said this before and I'll say it again. There is something diff about a custom knife or one that you had made spicifically for you. Custom knives have that lil something extra...that piece of the maker in them, many times you converse for hours over the phone or through emails getting down details, changing things and just chatting. That is part of why I spend alot of money on customs.
"It is all reletive. It depends on what you want, and what you want to spend. Knives range in price from $1 to tens of thousands of dollars, and there are people who want to buy knives in every price range, and people that think anything more expensive than their limit is crazy." hair.
Exactly
Up here, the basic ones tend to be more
I would agree with most here on their views on collecting. For me, I'm also one that collects with the primary intent of a "user" blade. If I'm going to spend the bucks I pretty well want to make sure I'm going to get my money's worth out. My ceiling is about $130 CDN - up to that point, that knife is going to get used until I find something else. Now, in saying that, I'm not one that really abuses my regular stuff as well. I do have certain blades like my Bryds, Ka-Bar/Dozier folding hunter, etc for the "ugly stuff". If I'm going to spend more than that limit, first, it takes a lot of thought and definitely price/performance will come into play. I may never use those blades as hard as they could be used, but it's nice to know.......
I have acquired a few that are "up there". SERE 2K, Paramilitary, and BM710D2 were over the $200 CDN mark, especially the SERE 2K, which was closer to $300. No, they don't get used that much, but they were worth it to me "just to see" the next level. I'm also one that I want to touch/feel/fondle before buying, and I am prepared to pay the local price to walk away with it. I can't buy as many this way, but I haven't been disappointed either If i can't find one amongst 'em - I'll walk away from it. If I really, really want it and I can't find locally, I'll go online, but I'm also not doing that all that often either.
I'm actually sitting on this threshold right now of moving up again, and it in that area of "If I drop bigger bucks, will it be worth it??" For instance, I don't own a custom - if I get one - it'll probably be one of Darrel Ralph's Maxx's. I would LOVE to get a Sebbie (unfortunately, I'm not big on the classics - I want one of flashier ones = more) just "to see". Some of the William Henry's are absolutely gorgeous..... I know I'm ultimately going to go there - just a matter of when It's one of the love/hate things, I think - I would love to own it, hate to use it because it's so "purty" but because I dropped so much coin on it, I should use it. If I had more to spend, of course, this would be a non-issue
- gord
I would agree with most here on their views on collecting. For me, I'm also one that collects with the primary intent of a "user" blade. If I'm going to spend the bucks I pretty well want to make sure I'm going to get my money's worth out. My ceiling is about $130 CDN - up to that point, that knife is going to get used until I find something else. Now, in saying that, I'm not one that really abuses my regular stuff as well. I do have certain blades like my Bryds, Ka-Bar/Dozier folding hunter, etc for the "ugly stuff". If I'm going to spend more than that limit, first, it takes a lot of thought and definitely price/performance will come into play. I may never use those blades as hard as they could be used, but it's nice to know....... I have acquired a few that are "up there". SERE 2K, Paramilitary, and BM710D2 were over the $200 CDN mark, especially the SERE 2K, which was closer to $300. No, they don't get used that much, but they were worth it to me "just to see" the next level. I'm also one that I want to touch/feel/fondle before buying, and I am prepared to pay the local price to walk away with it. I can't buy as many this way, but I haven't been disappointed either If i can't find one amongst 'em - I'll walk away from it. If I really, really want it and I can't find locally, I'll go online, but I'm also not doing that all that often either.I'm actually sitting on this threshold right now of moving up again, and it in that area of "If I drop bigger bucks, will it be worth it??" For instance, I don't own a custom - if I get one - it'll probably be one of Darrel Ralph's Maxx's. I would LOVE to get a Sebbie (unfortunately, I'm not big on the classics - I want one of flashier ones = more) just "to see". Some of the William Henry's are absolutely gorgeous..... I know I'm ultimately going to go there - just a matter of when
It's one of the love/hate things, I think - I would love to own it, hate to use it because it's so "purty" but because I dropped so much coin on it, I should use it. If I had more to spend, of course, this would be a non-issue - gord
Some people buy Rolexes, some Timex. My "Timex" knives do what they do. My Citizen titanium Eco-drive does what it does, which shows my limit on knife prices. I buy users that will hold some value, but I will use them. I'm just trying to understand what a Sebenza/Strider level knife will offer above and beyond a Benchmade or Spyderco. Higher fit and finish, better warranty, and superior materials and treatment pretty much, although there is no absolute 100% ironclad it-will-happen.
My "I've got one and you don't!," now that's different. Lots of buyers are filling that need, even if they don't want to admit it to themselves. Including me.
My "I've got one and you don't!," now that's different. Lots of buyers are filling that need, even if they don't want to admit it to themselves. Including me.
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Let me start this off with the fact that there are a lot of great knives out there under $150. Spyderco, BM, Buck and many many others. But bottom line is that even when I have them available, I just don't use them over my customs. Do they accomplish the same things...sure they cut just as well as the more expensive knives, sometimes even better. But, theres nothing like the feeling of opening up a Mayo, the smoothness is absolutely amazing or the "clunk" when opening up my Striders or the way my SLCC feels like an extension of my hand...and its like my watches, sure a quartz Timex will probably keep better time but the enjoyment I get from wearing my Breitlings and Omegas on a daily basis make the price difference more than worth it to me. I'm an engineering junky and damn proud to admit it
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For the last couple of weeks, I've been using a #9 Opinel as my main EDC. It was about 10 bucks. I also have a decorated Sebenza though that I love. It cost me just over $400 and I believe it's worth it. They're both great knives, but they occupy different classes: you just can't compare them in some ways.
If you think buying a Sebenza is crazy, check out this folder by Ray Appleton. There's no damascus, pearl, or ivory: it has a plain steel blade and black wood scales. There's not even any engraving or anything. Yup... that price isn't a typo!
If you think buying a Sebenza is crazy, check out this folder by Ray Appleton. There's no damascus, pearl, or ivory: it has a plain steel blade and black wood scales. There's not even any engraving or anything. Yup... that price isn't a typo!
If you have 500,- to spent it usually goes to high quality steel like INFI or some beautiful hand crafted folder. Is it worth it? IMO not.
You can buy good $10,- knifes like a Mora or Opinel or spent 20 on a very useful SAK. All thee will serve it purpose well and is good value for money. If you want a bigger knife there are a lot good quality fixed blade in the 50-100 range that can do almost the same things that 500,- knifes can. Sure there it is a differed quality overall but is that worth the extra 400-450 ?
Its just a question if you are a user or collector. If having a 500-blade makes you happy to have buy it! If you use a 500-blade all day buy it! But if you use it 5 times a year don’t bother 500, a 100-blade is enough!
I know what I talking about because I have my share in knifes. From a €6 Mora till a $200 Swamp Rat, a €7 till Opinel a €60 Spyderco and a €20 Sak till a €80 Leatherman.
You can buy good $10,- knifes like a Mora or Opinel or spent 20 on a very useful SAK. All thee will serve it purpose well and is good value for money. If you want a bigger knife there are a lot good quality fixed blade in the 50-100 range that can do almost the same things that 500,- knifes can. Sure there it is a differed quality overall but is that worth the extra 400-450 ?
Its just a question if you are a user or collector. If having a 500-blade makes you happy to have buy it! If you use a 500-blade all day buy it! But if you use it 5 times a year don’t bother 500, a 100-blade is enough!
I know what I talking about because I have my share in knifes. From a €6 Mora till a $200 Swamp Rat, a €7 till Opinel a €60 Spyderco and a €20 Sak till a €80 Leatherman.
Going on that last notion, let me use an example. My Alox Farmer from Vic. Quality, looks classy, I've never seen anyone with an Alox SAK in person, the workmanship and precision of SAKs has never been an issue for me and the manufactuer offers a lifetime no questions asked replacement plan for the knife. I know in many of the areas we're discussing a Sebenza or Dozier will readily outclass the SAK, but my point is that a lot of these cheap knives are nothing to turn your nose up (Not saying anyone here in specific is doing that). People talk about the fit and finish of the Lochsa or Hinderer folders, and looking at pictures they do seem up there, but I've always found the F&F of my alox SAKs to me as much as I'd expect from a knife. Comparing the Farmer to my plastic handled Mora's, the Mora's have a lot lower standards in many areas. The plastic handles have the mold lines visible with little pieces still hanging off from machining and things like that. How about the G10 Byrds, mine has all the quality of a Spyderco costing twice its price. It's not so much the price for me, it's just I can find the knives that I want to use, the ones I personally enjoy, in an extremely low price range. Most the cheap knives I champion I would much rather use than many of the higher-end ones out there. I'd rather use my Opinel than a Spyderco D'allara. I'm happier with my Buck 110 than a Paramilitary. It just so happens I can get my favorite knives for 10-30$, and that is something I'm very happy about.
I very much see and appreciate the art in a knife. I just have a strong personal preference to use any art I buy that's usable, including a knife. I think more knowledge is to be had out of a knife and why it was made how it was by using it. Same with my music. I can pick up a rare vinyl or CD, but I'll play it constantly and appreciate the sounds on it, studying them, learning them on an intimate level, rather than let the album stay pristine so it holds it's value. I don't give a damn about the value of my things, though I take excellent care of all that I own. It's like my skateboard. You pay more, you generally get higher quality and fit and finish, to an extent. You buy a generic board from walmart or Kmart and you're worse off than not having a skateboard it's so bad. You get up to normal prices, you can find some quality stuff. Beyond that there are decks made out of exotic materials like aluminum, special composites and fiberglass reinforced wood. Ceramic bearings. Multiple core wheels. I've used these things and I've used the budget items from the good, functional range. I buy local blank decks which cost 25-35$ instead of professional models costing 50-60$ and I get just as much function out of them. Just like I knives I buy, they're on the same level to the other decks in every area that matters to me. They don't have as pretty or creative graphics, but other than that they're identical in craftsmanship and performance. Same holds true for a 25$ Byrd and a 100$ Spyderco in my experience.
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Vivi I understand what you mean by what you like just happens to fall into that price range. My little bro collects buck,case, queen and VIC. He's got more of them than anyone I know, part of that is they are very affordable to him and they just happen to fill his niche for collecting. That is the important part about collecting. Its buying what you want if your a collector. If you dont want something you dont need you wont buy it etc.
As for Busse goes....check out the warranty. When a man shoots a blade with a rifle intentionally and they replace it. They are going to get my business, and they have held up to everything I have wanted. Now I know my Ranger will probably do almost everything I need it too and Justin is a great guy, but I still buy Busse..its an addiction. I own many mora's and they are ok, but just not my cup of tea. It all falls into what you like and I for better or worse like really expensive things including my guns and flashlights. I own alot of less expensive ones however I just enjoy the more expensive ones more. Now does that fall into line with that "I got one and you dont" factor. Subconsciously maybe, but I am not worried about it(as I rub my sebbie ).
As for Busse goes....check out the warranty. When a man shoots a blade with a rifle intentionally and they replace it. They are going to get my business, and they have held up to everything I have wanted. Now I know my Ranger will probably do almost everything I need it too and Justin is a great guy, but I still buy Busse..its an addiction. I own many mora's and they are ok, but just not my cup of tea. It all falls into what you like and I for better or worse like really expensive things including my guns and flashlights. I own alot of less expensive ones however I just enjoy the more expensive ones more. Now does that fall into line with that "I got one and you dont" factor. Subconsciously maybe, but I am not worried about it(as I rub my sebbie
).I agree, it's good to buy what you enjoy. I don't have the justification for a Busse myself, while appreciating their good knives, but others feel differently. I don't have anything I need to do with a knife a Mora can't do that a Busse can, so I don't feel a need to get one.
As for Busse's warranty, go shoot one of your brothers SAKs then send it in to Victorinox.
As for Busse's warranty, go shoot one of your brothers SAKs then send it in to Victorinox.
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And I have gotten to the point where I only want CR & Custom knives. There is something really special to me about the customs that I own. I love getting to know the makers, that is half the fun of it for me. Customs aren't for everyone. There are enough knives out there to satisfy each and every different taste that collectors have. Customs ARE worth it to me. There is a piece of the maker in each knife that he makes. I just can't articulate my thoughts well today.
" I have said this before and I'll say it again. There is something diff about a custom knife or one that you had made spicifically for you. Custom knives have that lil something extra...that piece of the maker in them, many times you converse for hours over the phone or through emails getting down details, changing things and just chatting. That is part of why I spend alot of money on customs." I agree with this.
" I have said this before and I'll say it again. There is something diff about a custom knife or one that you had made spicifically for you. Custom knives have that lil something extra...that piece of the maker in them, many times you converse for hours over the phone or through emails getting down details, changing things and just chatting. That is part of why I spend alot of money on customs." I agree with this.
Knife Collector, that is one of the big draws of a custom in my eyes. It's a much more intimate knife that way. If I could design my own skateboard parts to my specifications and get to know the people crafting them for me, then I would spend a little more on that every so often. I plan to do this with a custom slipjoint for myself at some point, but the value I place in that experience is less than the value I place in simply owning a good, reliable knife; hence why I can put it off for years and not care.
One of the problems though is cheap knives I speak of already come so close to what I want. An Opinel for example has a very thin blade that's flatground with a slight convex and a wide, natural handle. I love the characteristics of them and if I design that custom slippie, I think it's going to be awfully close to many of these knives.
One of the problems though is cheap knives I speak of already come so close to what I want. An Opinel for example has a very thin blade that's flatground with a slight convex and a wide, natural handle. I love the characteristics of them and if I design that custom slippie, I think it's going to be awfully close to many of these knives.
I don't think you even need to spend $500. There are many outstanding cutting instruments folding and fixed between about $30 and $350. Really, there are very few knives that cost more than than that really perform a cutting job better than those that cost less than $350.
Some people like to buy cars, some watches, some boats, some horses, some properties, some etc., etc., blah blah blah.
I like to buy knives and I can assure you that they are far cheaper than any of the other things I mentioned.
Expensive knives serve a different function than cutting - they confer the illusion of status, the illusion of having money, the appearance of having good taste, it might bring you pleasure - they might even make you a return some day! If they really will make you a return, it is like any other investment - you measure the risks and the return. This has been discussed to death in the custom knife forum - you can see more threads about it than you probably have time to read.
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<stuff deleted> But, theres nothing like the feeling of opening up a Mayo, the smoothness is absolutely amazing or the "clunk" when opening up my Striders or the way my SLCC feels like an extension of my hand...and its like my watches, sure a quartz Timex will probably keep better time but the enjoyment I get from wearing my Breitlings and Omegas on a daily basis make the price difference more than worth it to me. I'm an engineering junky and damn proud to admit it
I'm with Blade Junky, and others. A $30 B&D drill would do the job just fine, but using my Milwaukee Holeshooter on a home maintenance task turns it into an enjoyable experience . . . I get the corresponding benefit everytime I open my sebenza.
BTW, I LOVE the appearance and feel of a Rolex, Tag, etc. Unfortunately, I can't get past the pure accuracy and funcitionality of my Timex Ironman, so it pains me to say that I can't justify doing the nice watches . . .
Fooj, MSEE, UC-Davis 1996