Utility of hawksbill blades?

A

AR15fan

Joined
Oct 11, 2000
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It seems to me the the Hawksbill blade like on a Civilian, Merlin, or Harpy, or to a lesser extent the Spydercard, would be a poor choice for self defense or even utility use. Its an overly specialized design that only works well in a slashing or hooking technique.
It almoast impossible to get a deep effective stab with these blade shapes. You are even more limited if you try to use a Hawksbill blade in a reverse grip
frown.gif


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-Marine, Peace Officer, Gunsite EW1 Graduate.
 
Forgetting SD for a minute, the curved blade seems great for rescue, fishing/rope work, etc. But it would seem unfit for even the most mundane utility tasks - opening a package, slicing a sandwich, etc.
 
I would actually reverse the values in my view.

For utility I would never carry a hawksbill. Try scraping or scoring, even skinning.

But for defense, the hook bill tears even when it cannot cut. And, look at the some of the current thought on self-defense, it advocates cutting tendons and such to eliminate the ability of the defender to move. A hawkbill does that fine.

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I have to say that I think the hook blades can be very effective. Okay, so its a bit different to pierce with thats true. But with the point of the blade being lower than the midline of the handle it creates a nice little bit of leverage. Just take a Harpy in a hammer grip, thumb along the spine and press it against a target. I find the point goes in quite nicely. And the curve fo the the blade bites into targets without sliding off. At that point a slight insertion moves the curvature into the target. I think they can be employed with very nasty results. Hopefully I'll never have to find out.
 
I'll agree with RH here. You used the word "utility." I don't see the remote chance a knife will be used in self defense as a "utility" use. Utility is what I do around the 90 acre farm. And, despite having access to a lot of different Spydies, the G-10 Harpy is my number one, always got it in my pocket knife. Around a farm you are always needing to cut rope, twine, a big giant weed, a twisted piece of hose or a tangled belt in a mower. For all of those kind of things, I'll take the Harpy. And it does work fine opening the UPS packages I get from Bill at HI. That little bit of plain edge at the end goes right through tape, etc. I still can't believe they discontinued it.

When I go to town wearing Levis I drop a plain edge Shabaria in the other pocket and feel well equipped.

Gregg

[This message has been edited by tulsamal (edited 10-17-2000).]
 
Well...I may have a position on this!
I have been carrying a curved blade for years (both utility and emergency concept). While (thankfully) to date, my only need has been utility, the hooked blades do everything I expect of a knife (cut stuff).

In OFFENSIVE knife work, thrusts are the most effective wounding mechanism. If you want to get into that, don't get confused with DEFENSIVE knives. A blade designed to drive-off an aggressor is exemplified by the hawkbill. Really depends whether you want to cut or stab. If you want both, get a straight-blade.

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Life Member NRA & PMA, member AKTI, NKCA, ATA, and any other worthy cause I can find.

 
Originally posted by Hawkbill:
In OFFENSIVE knife work, thrusts are the most effective wounding mechanism. If you want to get into that, don't get confused with DEFENSIVE knives. A blade designed to drive-off an aggressor is exemplified by the hawkbill. Really depends whether you want to cut or stab. If you want both, get a straight-blade.
Click to expand...

I think in any conflict in which you are using a knife against a person you want to kill or cripple that opponent as quickly as possible. It doesnt matter if its "offensive" or "defensive". The goal is the same, to kill or cripple your opponent so he cant hurt you.
Its sounds like your advocating the hawksbill blade shape because it looks scary?


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-Marine, Peace Officer, Gunsite EW1 Graduate.
 
Ahem. In a court of law, the purpose is to "stop"...
smile.gif


IF a scare factor is being implied here, better be prepared to follow with action or forget about it.

L8r,
Nakano
 
1) A hawksbill is better than a straight edge for cutting cord/tape/hose shapes. The inside curve draws continually closer to the item to be cut, instead of pulling away from it, as a bellied blade would do.

2) It works well for cutting close to a delicate surface like a trapped victim or immobile patient or fragile contents of a carton, since it is like a sheepsfoot in laying a dull edge against what's about to be cut, up until the moment the edge does its work.

3) For those who insist on damaging humans with their knives, hawksbills offer an interesting advantage.

Hold a straight bladed knive in a hammer grip, with the arm extended and the wrist turned just enough for the forearm and thumb side of the hand to be in a straight line. This grip will give maximum thrusting strength with minimal strain. The blade tip is pointed up at approximately a 45 degree angle.

Now hold a hawksbill knife the same way. The blade tip is pointed directly forward.

By the way, try this with a Shabaria ... it will also point directly at your opponent.
 
Hawksbill knives bad for defence?!
I don't think so. Hawksbill knives are traditional weapon in kerambit style of Indonesean martial art. Such knives were in use in Indonesea as weapon for at least several hundred years and if these knives are so bad as one says then why they are in use still?
As for stabs one must consider that under stress and adrenalin rush movements aren't so precise as when training in comfrotable dojo or cuting cardboard at backyard. Slashing with hawksbill knife is more "falseproof". As for lethality stabs generally don't deliver such large bleeding wound than rip cut with hawksbill (of course if one doesnt twist knife in target). And to consider pain which is delivered - hawksbill also has some advantage.
Of course if knife is used by knife fighting expert with years of training and tons of practical experiense under his belt then knife blade geometry doesn't realy matters, but for all other of us not so selfconfident - hawksbill can provide some advantage.

[This message has been edited by Dmitry (edited 10-18-2000).]
 
A hawkbill will slash better than any other blade shape, no question. The problem with using a hawkbill against an aggressive human is that you can't stab with it. To many people, this is enough of a disadvantage that they won't carry one. To others, the advantage in slashing is more important than the disadvantage in stabbing. You might be able to get a good stab in with a Merlin or Harpy by holding it edge up and thrusting the point into someone's belly - I don't know for sure, if anyone's tried it let us know. The Civillian or Matriarch are excellent slashers, probably the best there are, but not much for utility, and worthless for stabbing. A Harpy or Merlin will slash well and can be used for many utility tasks, but not all. How useful one of these would be for you depends on what kind of utility tasks you put your knife to, and what your style of using them is. Too many people swear by hawkbills to discount them as useless, I mean, how would you feel going up against the business end of a Civillian? My own personal choice for self defense would not have a hawkbill as my only knife, but I might carry one also. As for utility, I haven't tried one yet, but when I find a G-10 Harpy I'll let you know.

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"I have often laughed at the weaklings who call themselves kind because they have no claws"

- Zarathustra
 
Guys,
I've posted before on this topic. I'll take a hawksbill for defense or any way you want for fighting!Know of them being used in the real world,not movies ,or comics,or daydreaming but for real!The person that was there is sold on hawks & sold me on them.
Great for utility also.
jim
 
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