Utterly dejected due to my broken hatchet. I should've paid attention to the clues!

Yankee Josh

Yankee Josh

Joined
Mar 31, 2018
Messages
1,875
Hey guys. I decided to try out(lightly I might add) my P-V mfg co. wedge pattern hatchet/ boys axe today. Here's what it looked like before :);
N58adWy.jpg

And after :(;
p9gZUys.jpg

You can see where rust crept down from the top in the break.
PQCkvdS.jpg

Plus there's that inclusion just below it but it didn't go that far. I guess my question is does that break look normal? To me the steel appears cast when I know this was forged. A few more sad, sad pictures.. lol
This is the cut I was making in this paper birch when it snapped;
7KemvhC.jpg

I was holding the broken piece to get my camera to focus so you could get a closer look at the steel.
NLjH26O.jpg

Was this steel just rotten from being rusty for so long? In other breaks I recall seeing much cleaner looking and smoother steel.
I wasn't going to use this and I should've listened to my gut. I've got several hundred other axes and hatchets to use and I just HAD to try this one out. So the moral of the story is, if it's unique or looks weak DON'T USE IT!
lBaRfmq.jpg

I'm gonna go cry now! :poop::poop::poop::D;)
 
So sorry to hear of the damage your hatchet has suffered. Looking at your photographs the steel looks like it as crystalized. I had an axle failure on a Ford four wheel drive pickup back in the 1970s. It was very cold -30°F. and the truck was outside all night. I had started the engine and let it run for 30 minutes and then got in to go to my father's garage to get started plowing snow. The truck had an automatic transmission and as soon as I put it in reverse I heard a loud noise and the front wheels were not pulling. Got to the garage and got it apart and the axle had snapped off. I don't know if it was the temperature, the heat treating, metal that didn't meet spec or what it was that caused it. It looked very much like your photographs. I don't know if there is a way to determine if this condition exists before it breaks or not. If that rust came from a crack that could be felt or caught with a finger nail maybe you could have avoided the damage. I suspect I would not have noticed it beforehand. Bummer!
 
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It's worth noting that the common "looks cast" remarks regarding coarse grain are the result of confusion about what you see in broken cast stuff. Cast iron actually has SO much carbon in it that it precipitates out as graphite plates, which are what make it brittle and the grain so sparkly and coarse-looking when broken. Cast steel can (when done right) be made into a very usable axe, and the grain wouldn't look like that when broken. In cases where steel is broken, coarse grain is typically the result of grain growth during heat treatment. Proper heat treatment results in finer grain.
 
As I think about this more, if there is indeed a crack, even one that the eye cannot see if there is someone nearby that does Magnaflux testing I would think it would show up.
 
Our esteemed FortyTwoBlades is Very much correct in all of the above.
That is very typical example of excessive grain-growth that occures during forging,and have not been taken care of as a part of the subsequent Heat Treatment process(-es).
Thank you,Josh,for taking such good clear photos of this(if there's any way to do that it'd be a great "pinned" material for future reference).

I'm Very sorry for your loss,Josh,that is a truly beautiful forging,i stared at it for a long time after you first posted it,admiring it's shape.

But(and i'm not sure if it'll be any consolation),this issue was a real flaw built right into it,and what happened was Inevitable.
The grain of that size cannot function as a working tool.
(again,for the record,the correct grain size is that Just smaller than visible without magnification;it'll appear as "satiny",light-gray surface,with no individual grains discernable).

So,here's one suggestion(and i speak as a metal-worker solely,not knowing anything about collecting,historic value,et c.).
Go ahead and build this missing corner up with 7018 or the like.
(if mig is all you've access to that's fine also,just do a clean job with no inclusions).
Then grind the whole to shape,and HT the head,making sure that the forging Does get normalized,this time.
If you,or whomever you may have do this,is unsure of the procedure details,i could very easily walk you through this uncomplicated process.
The result will be better than before,in actuality.:)
 
Josh,you've been doing a terrific job of gathering all these axes,refurbishing them,making those gorgeous hafts and all that...
As a collector,i suppose that your aim is to preserve these tools in a shape that is closest to their original,"historic" condition...(i don't mean to presume,just loose thoughts + a slight coffee overdose:)...

Well,if you were to start meddling in the insides of these axes one could say that it'd be right along these same lines,as far as the historic Maine,and all things yankee are concerned-hands on,fix it,modify it if it don't suit,it'd be fairly consistent with history!:)

And also since you're probably likely to encounter more of the similar issues in the future,here's a suggestion:Just get you a set-up that'll allow you to re-HT an axe.
I did a quick&dirty search,and this here looked like the cheapest/most expedient venue:https://www.ebay.com/i/223368455609...MIvZXwp_yA5QIVAtRkCh1Z7QTQEAkYDyABEgJAuPD_BwE
(I've actually recently helped a friend set an identical one up,they're made in Latvia:),and are rather...minimalist...but totally sufficient;it adjusted beautifully,very practical rig).
And this is pretty much all you'll need...And who knows,it may open some curious possibilities for you...like getting some valuable but badly damaged axe and rebuilding it maintaining full control over the state of metal inside?...
Again,just idle thoughts...
 
Thanks for your replies guys.
I appreciate the feedback on it very much. It's nice to know what happened.
That small defect just below where it broke clued me in somewhat that something wasn't right. That's not a normal rust "pit" if you know what I mean. It really looks like missing material.
Interestingly the top part of this was very, very hard to file. The bottom half was normal filing but the top was way hard to work on.
I would like to fix it at some point. I was debating carefully gluing the broken piece back on after removing it from the haft.
Have any of you ever seen a 2lb wedge before? I think it might be the smartest thing to simply glue it back on and call it good.
As for your second reply Jake thank you. I'll check that link out for sure.
jake pogg said:
As a collector,i suppose that your aim is to preserve these tools in a shape that is closest to their original,"historic" condition...(i don't mean to presume,just loose thoughts + a slight coffee overdose:)..
Click to expand...
You hit the nail right on the head. I want to "fix" this head while leaving it as close to original as possible.
Again thanks for chipping in with your two cents everyone I appreciate it. I couldn't believe it when it happened. Super disappointing! But C'est la vie!
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
It's worth noting that the common "looks cast" remarks regarding coarse grain are the result of confusion about what you see in broken cast stuff. Cast iron actually has SO much carbon in it that it precipitates out as graphite plates, which are what make it brittle and the grain so sparkly and coarse-looking when broken. Cast steel can (when done right) be made into a very usable axe, and the grain wouldn't look like that when broken. In cases where steel is broken, coarse grain is typically the result of grain growth during heat treatment. Proper heat treatment results in finer grain.
Click to expand...
I wanted to specifically thank you too 42 for your insight here. Until I start forging I'm afraid I'll continue to get words and processes mixed up. I've got too many things running around in my poor little pea brain and until I've a vested interest in remembering it I'm afraid I'll just continue to lose the info. You know use it or lose it kind of thing. But that was a succinct explanation of what was happening their and I thought deserved a special mention. Thanks again!
 
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