V-GAR viability and legal survivability.

R

Redleg

Joined
Nov 23, 1999
Messages
196
From a tactical standpoint, the V-GAR is awesome, but in the civilian realm, if used for defense, do you think it is "survivable" in court?

------------------
"Blessed is the Lord my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle..." excerpted from Psalms 144.
 
IMHO, and I'm not an expert, just a knowledgeable layperson in legal matters--yes. I do think the VGar would pass in court to the degree that anything can. Realize that laws are vague, and someone who is out to book you can probably find a way to do so.

Let me qualify that a bit. Most states have laws against "blackjacks and billies" and against the concealed carry of knives with specific blade lengths. For example, in IL, any citizen is considered "armed and dangerous" if he or she is carrying a knife with a blade length of "at least three inches." So even a Swiss Army Knife can get you in trouble if a judge has it in for you. Yet, I am not aware of any state that has a law about something like a wire or cord tool like the one in the VGar.

Now, if a police officer really wants to get you in trouble, he or she could probably confiscate the VGar as a "dangerous weapon," but I doubt you could be booked for having it. If you are arrested on another charge, having the VGar on you isn't going to help you out, but at most you would be looking at some sort of a vague misdemeanor charge for carrying a nonspecific dangerous weapon. Provided you were not caught using it to attack someone, your lawyer should be able to help you get off. If you were using it for attack, then that is different. Anything can be considered a dangerous weapon if it is used as such. If you take off you shoe and use it to attack someone you can be charged with armed assault. But the purely defensive use of a keychain weapon or a VGar is probably is about as close to safe as one can get in our overly-regulated society.

Hope this helps,

Scot
 
I'm not quite convinced. I grew up in the "People's Republic of California", and I worked in a cutlery store just prior to starting college(1988). We were raided by the Lakewood sherrif's dept and a fox news crew. A number of knives were confiscated due to a ridiculous interpretation of the switchblade law. Mostly balisongs. In addition, they confiscated buck 110's because an officer was able to flick it open by holding onto the blade! They stole, uh..er, "confiscated" several spydercos, a linder folding bowie, a western bowie, a couple of Al Mar FIXED blades and others. While awaiting my managers return, I promptly began to catalog and inventory by SKU, every item they were taking. It was then, that an officer threatened to arrest me if I continued to document their confiscation. The end result: The case was thrown out of court and only about 50% of the inventory was returned, based on a visual count, although the Lakewood Sherrif's claimed all were returned. Funny thing, the raid occurred mid-December. To this day, I am convinced that they were on a x-mas shopping trip. My point, if they'll interpret a buck 110 as a switchblade, what do you think would happen if you executed an armlock, breaking an attackers arm, or worse, a choke out with something that looks, feels, is used as, and is named partially for a garrote (V-GAR)?
If you are an undercover LEO, or NSA/CIA/DELTA/Secret service/etc... then it can be a valuable tactical back up. If you are average Joe or Jill citizen, you'd better get ready for the deep freeze, even if it's use was defensive. What do you all think?

-Redleg out.

p.s. I don't "have it in" for LEO's, on the contrary, many of my closest friends are officers and several of my soldiers are officers when not on drill. It's the crooked one's that worry me esp. concerning the V-GAR.

------------------
"Blessed is the Lord my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle..." excerpted from Psalms 144.



[This message has been edited by Redleg (edited 30 December 1999).]
 
NYC has a garrote law on the books. Manriki-gusari (sp?) are illegal as well.

------------------
~ JerryO ~

Cogito Cogito Ergo Cogito Sum


 
Any other thought on the matter? I'd like to hear Mr. Pioreks views on the intended use(s) of the V-GAR.
-Redleg out.

------------------
"Blessed is the Lord my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle..." excerpted from Psalms 144.
 
A lot of jurisdictions treat successful defenders as if they were attackers. Especially if they defend themselves with illegal weapons. The real problem with defending the carry of a V-GAR if you have to go to court is the fact that it is purely a weapon. You would have a hard time saying it has any other real use. Plus garrotes have typically been weapons of assassination. I know there are a lot of other techniques that can be used, but then you would have to explain in court how you trained for hours to perfect those techniques. BINGO....you were planning on using it as a weapon.
mad.gif
None of this is fair, but that's the way I think it would go.

On a side note: Kentucky has a concealed carry law and is reasonable about the issuing of permits. The law is states that a person with a permit has the right to carry a concealed deadly weapon, but doesn't really define the weapon or ask for the person to list the weapons carried. Gun stores immediately began to sell automatic knives. With a concealed weapon permit a person could techniquely carry the V-GAR. The problem is that the law has not been tested in court, and I certainly wouldn't want to be the guinea pig.

The V-GAR is really clever though, and I may get one just for fun.
cool.gif


------------------
Paul Davidson

Them:"What's that clipped to your pocket, a beeper?"
Me:"Uuh....yeah, something like that."


 
The reality of the situation in America today is, your family can visit you in prison, they cannot climb in the casket with you.

~~~"The more corrupt the State, the more numerous the laws."~~Tacitus
 
As I said in a previous thread:

I use it to lift computer room floor tiles, and temporarily bind and hold back bundles of cabling (quickly and easily!).

What's your excuse?
 
Don,
I understand your point. It's like the "Better to be judged by 12, than carried by six" routine. All well and good, but by that logic, It would be better to carry a concealed major-calibre firearm, no? I too, think the V-Gar is a neat "accessory", but in light of today's legal climate, I can't see a judge/jury siding with a person who used such a tool on another, whether for defense, or not. The garrote is not held in high esteem by the general populace, as it seems to be generally perceived as a weapon employed by dregs, assassins and "sneaky" people. This perception, right or wrong, exists. I believe in the improvisation of tools/weapons in a code-red situation, as espoused by Bruce Lee and others, but I fear that the V-Gar would not help you out legally. I'd like to hear from those who own a V-Gar and/or have used it in training, or for real. Anyone willing to share? Mr. Piorek, how about you?

-Redleg out.

------------------
"Blessed is the Lord my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle..." excerpted from Psalms 144.
 
A firearm cannot be threaded into a belt and concealed...firearms are entirely different, knives and impact weapons too.

If they ban everything, what are you going to carry then? Nothing? The V-Gar could be carried alone, but is best utilized as part of a layered defense, know what I mean?

I could say a lot of things that could be taken the wrong way, not personally, but philosophically speaking. One should really watch closely what one says on here!

 
So, I am driving on 495 the other day, for the uninitiated, that is the Capitol Beltway which surrounds the Logic Free Zone like a moat...

I make it over to the Virginia side of the world where CCW is "Shall Issue," and lo and behold, what do I see? A sign that reads:

PROJECT EXILE, ILLEGAL GUN, 5 YEARS IN VIRGINIA PRISON

So, not that Virginia is, but if you live in a State where you have no provision for CCW, there is a move to make criminals (and innocent people who carry sometimes) who carry firearms...pay a hefty price indeed. So, you will not be treated as severely for edged weapons, flexible or impact weapons, in light of this, I would think they would almost chuckle. It is getting that bad.



[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 01-09-2000).]
 
Any V-Gar owners out there willing to comment on their toys? I'd sure like to hear about your experiences.

-Redleg out.

------------------
"Blessed is the Lord my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle..." excerpted from Psalms 144.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top