Vacation Knife Experiences

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Apr 30, 2000
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I took the family for a week of seeing some things that interest them (and me). We went to Washington, D.C. to the Smithsonian and a few other places. My experiences regarding security, specifically with regards to knives, was enlightening as well as disappointing. In case you are wondering, I have reasons for not identifying which are which.

Museum 1: Pass through metal detectors on the way in, all bags are X-rayed. I had anticipated something like this, so I left the BM 556 in the car, and I was only carrying a Moki 921, with a plastic handle and a 2.5" blade. I just walked through the metal detector, since I didn't want to show it to the security folks (I have been through many metal detectors with this particular knife).

Museum 2: No obvious security measures. (There might have been a bag check, but I did not have one, so I did not notice.)

Museum 3: Check bags, no other obvious security.

Museum 4: Hand check all bags. My wife had a small hip bag, and the "security" agent went through it. He saw the small SAK on the key chain (I don't recall what model it is, but it has a very slender 1.5" blade, a small pair of scissors, and a nail file) and pointed at it with the stick he was using to sort through the bag. "Do you see that?" He wouldn't let my wife touch it, nor would he touch it, and he did not call it a knife, but referred to it as "that object." He informed her that such things were not allowed, but did let her in with a stern warning, probably because of the mild and accommodating manner in which she responded.

Bureau of Engraving (the Mint): Didn't actually go in, since I could not get tickets, but there were large signs saying that no dangerous weapons would be allowed inside. Such weapons included things like nail files.

Battleship Wisconsin (in Norfolk): No problems. I guess they figure you can't do very much to a battleship. Neat ship.

Bus tour of Norfolk Naval Base (stay on bus, do not get off): Hand check all bags, walk through metal detector. An armed guard (and he's military, not a rent-a-cop) asks you to empty all pockets while he is watching. Had to put the Moki in the car. When I went in, I said to the guard that I thought it was ironic that I could bring a camera with me but not a pocket knife (wouldn't a camera be a much greater security risk at a naval base?). He said that such things were considered concealed weapons. I told him not according to state and federal law (correct me here if I'm wrong). As I walked away, he came up to me and said that that may be true, but it is according to the base commander's rules. I think it took him a moment to come up with that one.

Overall, as long as I was discreet, there was usually no problem. But I came away with the feeling that there is a growing paranoia and hysteria here. Are we becoming a nation of sheeple? I remember in college walking home in the rain with a .22 rifle in my hand (had gone up the canyon for some plinking) and stuck my thumb out when a car came along. A little old lady stopped and gave me a ride. Can you imagine anyone doing that now? Another time I was walking down the street with a .308 rifle. A police officer saw me and asked to see the gun. He inspected it, saw that it was not loaded, and went on his way. I'll bet I couldn't do that now. My boss (a true redneck) actually took his 20 ga shotgun to school for show and tell when he was 8 years old. He even did a demonstration of how to load it (they made him do that part of it outside). The principal and teachers came to see the gun, not because anyone was in trouble, but because they wanted to see the gun. Can you imagine this happening today? Is it only a matter of time before the same type of fear that affects public perception of guns makes public use of a knife a thing of the past?

BTW, there were several times after the first few episodes that my wife was asking me why I needed to carry a knife, since she knew we would be passing through security. I did not answer (but I think she understands).
 
I remember having some type of knife in my pocket in school from about 7th - 12th.
Any guy that had shop class in school had some kind of knife on him.

Does not seem like it was that long ago, I'm only 34 now :)

The helpers we get were I work are high school kids and they never have a knife on them. Not even at work.
They are always looking for or asking for a knife to open boxs, cut up box's for the garbage, etc....
I ask them "were is your knife". They tell me they can't have them in school. I tell them just keep one in your car and put it in your pocket when you get to work.
They tell me they can not even keep one in there car because there car is parked on school grounds.

Dam!
 
I took the wife and kids to Six Flags Astroworld :barf: in Houston, TX this past weekend and absolutely HATED it!!
First off, like you, we were searched for "weapons" with metal detectors :grumpy: and my light EDC(consisting of my Spyderco Calypso Jr. PE, Spydercard 50/50, Jester SE, and Kershaw Chive) scared the HELL out of the teenage "screeners". I thought that they would pee in their pants. :D Lol

Oh and by the way, security at this place S*CKS. Although I had openly taken out my EDCs, I still got in with a Victorinox SwissCard. I didn't do this intentionally :rolleyes: , I had just forgotten that it was in a hidden pocket in my wallet. Eventually I decided to retrieve my knives back from them and locked them up in the car.

To top all of this, my wife and kids were very disappointed with this theme park :yawn:. The park hasn't changed AT ALL since the last time that I was there...thirteen years ago. We won't EVER be going back there. :barf:

Luckily, there was a Gun and Knife show in town. The wife visited some relatives while I took my boys to go have some REAL fun. :D ;) :D
 
Its really annoying that because of the hijacking of some planes with box-cutters so many place have gone completely bonkers with "dangerous object" security.

*Slightly off topic: Was it ever proven that blades were really all they had or is even this just speculation?*

Post 9/11 nobody is going to take over a plane with a box cutter....sure back when you were pretty sure that a hijacker was going to fly the plane to some airport and demand that his buddies be freed from some prison most people weren't going to take a risk at jumping even a lightly "armed" terrorist. But by plane number 4 ON 9/11 we saw that once passengers and crew had the idea that a hijacker might take a plane on a suicide flight resistance flaired up.

Be that as it may, I don't expect "weapon" restrictions to change on airplanes anytime soon...

However....at these other places, its totally ridiculous. I work in an art museum part time with paintings worth millions and while we do guard the paintings we don't even search people for blades.

I used to have a rule. Anytime I got to know someone who didn't carry at least some kind of pocket knife, I engaged in the time honored practice of at some point, asking them to give me a penny or some other small coin and giving them a knife, that I expected them to carry, in return. My most recent new friend is a lawyer. He goes in so many buildings every day where he cannot carry a "weapon" that I'm debating about whether its even worth it.

This is how "knife control" will be enacted, IMO. You won't see so many laws against knives per-sey. It will just get to the point that to go into places like malls and all public gathering places you will have to pass through more and more security. Having to constantly remember to leave your knife in the car will become enough of an annoyance that many people will simply give up.
 
Don't you folks understand that "rules is rules and we gots to follow the rules"! The best one I've heard recently was a Federal Agent, I believe he was DEA but I'm not sure, was allowed to board a flight with his 9mm, I assume his paperwork was in order, but the ever vigilant security screener confiscated the real deadly weapon he was carrying--his nail clippers!!!

phantom4
 
Originally posted by phantom4
but the ever vigilant security screener confiscated the real deadly weapon he was carrying--his nail clippers!!!

phantom4
Some of that was just ridiculous. At least it's being eased up on a bit so that you can carry a nail clipper or disposable razor through.
 
Discretion and calmness are often the answer. I carried a pocket knife from the 7th grade on, in a school that had banned them, where my mother was a teacher! I never played with it, showed it off, or tried to scare away a bully with it. Never had any trouble.

Got stopped late at night by a cop once, Had my EDC on me, a CQB - 7, he asked to see it and I calmly gave it to him, he asked me why I had it, I told him I was a carpenter, he handed it back and I went home. Now, I was helped in this situation by the fact that a CQB - 7 is a completely legal knife, even in NYC, but I think that if you present your blade as a tool and not a weapon (harder with some knive then others, I know) you have a much better chance of not having any trouble.
 
A little off topic here, but oh well. As much as I hate to say this, I'd prefer that the knife ban on airplanes be continued. My reason is that if it is allowed, it is inevitable that EVERYONE will carry a knife, and most of them will not know what the hell they're doing. I can see some guy being over-paranoid aboard a flight and attacking some middle-eastern looking man merely because the man coughed the wrong way. I'd be more afraid of being hurt by THAT guy than a terrorist because there would be several of these moronic wannabee-heros on every flight with their surgen stainless steel partially serrated "death star" that cost a whopping $15.99. These sheeple scare the living shi*t out of me and I certainly don't want them armed around me.
 
Please, that is like saying that when you pass CCW laws that everyone starts carrying firearms. That is just not true. And if they all do, then so be it. If someone missuses their knife they will be held accountable. I am not in favor of everyone carrying, but I am in favor of everyone having the right to carry.

I have watched airport screeners and if I wanted to bring a real weapon to kill people with on board I could. It would not be a pocket folder. Trust people a little bit. I may not be happy about everyone and their grandmother carrying the same things I can, but as long as it allows me to carry those things it is infinitely better than the alternative.
 
I carried my knife with me during my last year in HS (this past year) even though it was "illegal" and u'd get a 1 day suspension (big deal). Never got caught, never had to use it though...BUT you never know...besides, I felt nekkid without that weight in my pocket.

When we went on our class trip, I brought my knife (at the time, 4" blade wenger....now i have a mean @$$ Tomcat :D :D)...I didn't think twice about bringing it. Going through the customs/security checkpoint, they said to empty out all your weapons, blahblahblah....I just put it in my clothing/luggage stuff which they were randomly searching..not even very well, only to make sure you ddin't have an AK-47 or bomb in there. I was sh*tting bricks throughout the whole process, waiting to see my luggage....finally get to board the ship and grab out luggage - it was there:)

We had a stopover in Nova Scotia and then boarded the ship the next day...

I decided to be honest this time - DUMB MISTAKE. I told the lady I had a "pocket knife". She said "depending on how big it is, we'll have to take it temporarily"....I pull it out.."yup, that's too big". So anyways she writes my name down on a plastic baggy w/knife it it and says it should be back in Portland when I get there and to go to the office.

Time to sh*t bricks again....

To make a long story short, I get back and ask 2 customs offices where I can get my knife and then I go to the ticket office and some guy who doesn't speak to me retrieves it for me....

Moral:
When u're going on a cruise ship or similar situation where you can pop it in your "real" luggage and not carry-on....do so. Heck, in this situation, I could have put it on my carry-on,...well, it ALL was carry on on a cruise ship. What I don't get is that I EASILY could have stuffed a machine pistol in my bag and they probably wouldn't have gotten me. Get a bunch of guys to do that and you have yourselves a cruise ship.

Warthog
 
Good Evening Everyone-

RocketSoul, welcome to BladeForums. Please be very careful regarding your reasons to prevent "some" people from carrying simple tools like knives in public places. Unfortunately, you're dancing to the music that the leftwingers are playing in your ear. This is simply a "divide & conquer" technique to which we must NOT give quarter.

What we should do, however, is be on our best behavior as ambassadors of the tool-carrying movement. If we are traveling for business or pleasure to a faraway city, bring a favorite knife along. Until we can win mindshare, we need to be "middle-of-the-road" in terms of dress and how we comport ourselves. I love knives as much as the next person, but showing-up to a tourist spot with a half-dozen or more folders WILL raise eyebrows.

Hey, I ain't about Political Correctness, but let's be smart about how we fight this battle. My EDC is a well-worn but perfectly maintained BM Mini-AFCK. It has been to Europe and all over the US. Using techniques suggested by Lunumbra, I rarely get any pushback.

Six String Samurai, that was a fantastic post. You're absolutely correct. Big Government is angling for "death by a thousand bee stings" and hoping that sheeple-in-power will create "policy" in absence of their ability to pass confiscatory legislation. :mad:

[/rant mode]

Regards,

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Darn, I guess you guys are right once again. Trusting people is hard for someone as paranoid as myself (live by it as my law of life) but I guess most people would be OK. However there'd always be someone stupid, which is true regarding everything, right? I think I'd still be sweating bullets for the first three quarters of and hour on the flight wondering if anybody will do something uncalled for. Despite, I will still dream of the day I can carry once again.
 
I agree with RocketSouls post...I am into blades and firearms. I know peole will disagree but more than half the people I meet where I find out they are into firearms are , to put it bluntly , idiots. Nothing like going to a shooting range and listening to people talk to their pals about "this baby will cut them mother****ers in HALF !". Not to mention all the people telling me they only carry "the most potentest handgun in the world" . ANd these are guys who have guns legally.. really do think they need an IQ test to own firearms.

As for knives...it scares me that there are people out there that buy those POS knives on TV..and beleive me they do...or they would not be selling them.
Just recently I was in a drugstore that had a rack of 5 dollar knives...real POS...I was showing the clerk there who is a friend, my LaGRiffe..when these two guys came over and overheard me say I paid $48.00 for it they then preoceeded to tell me they could get 10 knives for that price.

My rant has no ending so I bid you all farewll.
 
Tony,

Do you, based on news reports, personal experience, or even unfounded stories posted on websites, have any real reason to think that unwarented usage of knives on airplanes or in any other public area is really a problem?

I'm not talking about crime-filled areas where idiot kids are slicing people up over such important issues as "What are you lookin' at?".

Yeah, there are pleanty of gun and knife idiots that frankly I'd just as soon not identify themselves as "on my side" on these issues. But some punk running off at the mouth about his new POS knife isn't really anything to worry about.

There haven't been all that many vigalante actions by unarmed people on planes, and most of the incidents I've heard about seemed justified based on the behavior of the passenger in question. Most people would think even more seriouly before pulling a weapon than they would in simply trying to restrain some drunk or otherwise belligerant person.

Don't fall for the typical "disarm everyone to prevent any possibility" logic. It is just a way to scare people into giving up their freedom for "security".
 
I'm into guns and knives and frankly educate myself thoroughly on both subjects. I don't see what being a gun hobbyist has to do with not knowing anything about knives (such as you example Tony)? In each of the hobbies, there are PLENTY of ignorants without being tied to the other hobby...

Warthog
 
Good Evening Everyone-

Just was thinking about vacations n' knives and had the thought that the more general presence of knives could actually have a beneficial effect. Think about it:

Post-September 11, no sane/rational/normal person would ever try to hijack an airplane with a knife or boxcutter. Similarly, a whole planeload full of people with knives would reduce this potential hijacker (regardless of weapons) to sushi if they ever tried.

It's a great balance, or should I say, imbalance? Not enough tool for the kooks (hijackers), but just the right piece of equipment for the law-abiding majority (passengers).

Just think if Tom Burnett, Todd Beamer, Mark Bingham, and Jeremy Glick each had an AFCK-sized or ENDURA-sized knife on them to help save Flight 93?

The gungrabbers screech about "catastrophic decompression" and bunch of other baloney. What is their arguement with knives? A knife has a range of approximately 30" and doesn't ricochet. The manual of arms for a knife is quite simple, and when like-minded cohorts are helping, the effects are rapid.

Besides, paraphrasing James K. Mattis (RIP), "You need something with which to cut your bagel!"

Now, this same concept of "beneficial knives" holds true at the corner of 34th & Broadway, vacation spots, shopping malls, and amusement parks as it does at 39,000 feet.

Regards,

~ Blue Jays ~

P.S. Speaking of hijackers...sorry if this post started to hijack the post a little bit. :confused:
 
Totally disgusted with post 9/11 efforts at enhancing "security".

Even more disturbing is the near total lack of outrage among the general population. Americans are apparently perfectly happy that you have to go through metal detectors to get into taxpayer supported museums, kids get suspended or expelled for having boy scout knives on school grounds, and old ladies get frisked by security guards prior to boarding their flight. All in a fruitless effort to enhance "security", by taking ever larger liberties with the Constitution.

CCW laws have effectively proven that for the most part, people that seek to take charge of their personal security, and the security of their families, are responsible, law abiding and largely of sound mind and level head.
They also are a distinct minority, in Virginia and in most states less than 2% of the eligible adult population chooses to legally carry a firearm for self defense. If it was easy, everyone would do it.

Those responsible adults that choose to carry the tools - knives included - to defend themselves and others should be recognized and congratulated, not searched and villified. By making it difficult for the ill-intended to figure out who is a threat and who isn't, they make victim selection much more hazardous and provide a greater degree of security for everyone around them.

Finally, the added security does NOTHING to stop determined criminals, since they won't bother coming in the front door.

Heightened vigilance, additional law enforcement presence, and better intelligence coordination will improve security - metal detectors and pat downs will not.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonble searches and seizures, shall not be violated..."


Seems clear to me.
 
xsrdx:

Hear, Hear!

This was my overall feeling after the above mentioned experiences. We are on the slippery slope of loss of liberties. My feelings can be summed by a bumper sticker I heard about (have not yet seen it):

A man with a gun is a citizen
A man without a gun is a subject

We are becoming a nation of SUBJECTS with the government telling us what to do and how to do it. It takes upon itself the ever increasing task of protecting us from ourselves, justifying its actions with the belief that they know what is best, because they are the professionals. It is a slow process, but it is happening. In a way, the terrorists won a major battle on 9-11, because they were able to get the sheeple of this country to accept violations of personal liberties on an increased scale. We are more like the "society" that the terrorists believe we should be.
 
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