vacuum stabilizing chamber

R Dockrell

R Dockrell

Joined
Mar 26, 2000
Messages
658
With the new threads on dying and stabilizing wood and the sucsess that people are appearing to have with minwax wood hardener I've been been thinking. Ok to those that know me that does sound scary.
What if you cut the bottom out of a 20 lb propane cylinder and ground it nice and smooth and even.
Then epoxied a chunk of hard rubber mating to a peice of .25 inch thick steel plate or other ridgid surface.
Then hooked up the valve on the propane cyinder to a vacuum pump, would the bottom of the cutout propane cylinder seal against the rubber and pull and hold a vacuum.
If so an icecream pail of wood hardener and handle material could be stabilized in a very short time.
What do you think, will it work?
 
It might, but if it dosent, it's not going to implode and send glass all over. I do small stuff in a piece of heavy walled 2 inch pipe.
 
I use a 2 quart wide mouth mason jar.They are made to stand a vacumn. I bought a hand vacumn pump for bleeding brakes at Al's Auto Supply.
Works fine and you can do 3 - 4 handles at a time. Punch a hole in the lid with an awl put in a piece of 1/4 inch tubing seal it with goop. you're ready to go for about $40 ans 30 minutes of work.
Take Care
TJ Smith;)
 
The major portion of the stabilizer uptake (IMHO) is pressurization after vacuum. For this reason, glass is NOT at the top of my list of chamber materials :eek: !
There's a couple different ways to go about this, but the most accepted is to cover the handle material with the stabilant fluid & weight the handle material down so it doesn't float. Pull a vacuum for whatever time you deem sufficient, then release the vac and charge the chamber with positive pressure. This is what drives the hardener deep into the cellular structure of the wood/bone/horn once the air is removed. Hold it at positive pressure for the desired amount of time, bleed off the air, and uncap the tank.
The stuff I use has another step, since it's heat activated....I "cook" it at 250F for a couple hours to kick off the hardener.....otherwise just let it dry out if acetone mix is used.

As in everything in knifemaking, there is more than one way to skin the kitty...this one works quick & does a GR8 job for me.....
 
I don't know how safe it would be taking off the bottom of a PROPANE cylinder..
 
shappa, that's not a problem if you fill the empty cylinder with water before cutting it open with an angle grinder. This way there won't be any explosive gas mix left in the cylinder. Did that several times to get housings for gas forges.

Personally i would prefer to work with an oxygen or CO2 cylinder, because these are set up and tested to withstand 200 bar pressure as opposed to the relatively low 15 bar pressure in a propane cylinder.

Achim
 
I Am Going To Do Resin Impregnated M-14 Rifle Stocks And Drum Sticks Real Soon. Be Carefull Pressure Has To Be -100lbs. I Have Every Thing Set Up. Anyone Interested
 
Harry Jensen...got a question for you

What kind of solution are you stabalizing in? I knew there had to be a heat activated resin but have not been able to find one. Thanks!
 
I wouldn't cut on any gas tank!! I've met a few disfigured people and seen a few headstones where filling with water didn't work out. Purging the tank with argon seems to be the prefered method of professionals but you have to have a substantial gas flow to keep any oxygen out. Not worth the risk in my book. I use a glass Weck canning jar for a vacuum chamber then place it in a pressure chamber. I do apply vacuum to the glass, I don't pressurize the glass container, just use it to hold the stabilant, wood and weights. Don't want to get fragged. I'm sure you could cause an implosion it you struck the glass while under vacuum but even at absolute (which is not attainable, and most of us cant afford a pump that even gets close) vaccuum, its not going to be very destructive and I like to see whats happening as far as air bubbles in my wood. Minwax wood hardner seems to begin to boil at about 22 mm hg. so I like to watch so I don't wind up boiling off all my stabilant.
 
sattley said:
I wouldn't cut on any gas tank!! I've met a few disfigured people and seen a few headstones where filling with water didn't work out. Purging the tank with argon seems to be the prefered method of professionals but you have to have a substantial gas flow to keep any oxygen out. Not worth the risk in my book.
Click to expand...

I agree 110% with sattley about cutting on a fuel tank. Yeah sure.... There has been some people to do it succsessfully but not everyone. Look at the link that I had posted. It looks expensive but I bet you can salvage all those parts from a yard or off the side of the road. Even if its kinda big you can always make it smaller :D If you happen to pick the other way PLEASE BE CAREFUL!!! :eek:
 
finding the vacuum pump was my challenge, the containers are different vessels i either made or use canning jars. the gague i bought from an auto supply for 10.00 but not necessary. if you can see the bubbles then you have a good idea it's working. acrylic polymers tend to glue the scales together so something should be used for separation. when they stick together there might be less penetration of the stabilant. for larger stabilization i use penacryl with green wood and wood juice for dry, but only the large stuff.

in fact, i have a container with a trash tank, large vacuum pump and 220 /2 horse motor that will stabilize 10 foot lumber. probably will no longer use so if any of you are interested lemme know.

some pressurize(70-90#) after vacuum, some don't....both seem to get the solution in the scales but the reverse pressure is advised. other advise is to make the container sufficant for such pressure.

this is my .02 cents worth,

bill
 
I know theres several on here that do fool around with stabilizing there own materials, and I spent several dollars making vacuum and pressure chambers, buying a pump , getting lots of wood hardener which isn't cheap.
My conclusion is the average knife maker will never get the kind of stabilization
you get from professionally stabilized material. You will save money and time and give your customers a much better finished product if you either buy already stabilized material or send your material to a professional stabilizer and have them do it, you'll be glad you did I sure am and them doing it really isn't very expensive. I sent 16 blocks to mike at wssi last spring and it cost me $80, $5 a handle is pretty darn cheap and its 100 times better then anything I could have done.

Good luck,
Bill
 
If you stabilize less than 200-300 pounds a year you will never make it cost effective.Send it to Mike at WSSI, and it will be done with the REAL stabilizing agent (not wood hardener), and done right.
Stacy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top