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- Oct 14, 2002
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I have been offered a brand new Camilus Cuda in damascus steel in trade for a watch. I can't find any information on this knife. Does anyone know about it? Also, what is it worth? Thanks, Frank
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Value of Camilus Cuda in damascus?
- Thread starter countycomm.com
- Start date
What are the pro's and con's (besides it price...) of Damascus. Does it take and also keep a really sharp edge, how about maintenance, coating and lubrication (corrosion resistance of Damascus). The Rockwell hardness and how brittle it is. What qualities explain the price-difference of other high-end steels. For only esthetic reasons I do not pay that kind of money, I expect technical advantages, typical for this unique type of steel. Is all the fuss about Damascus just a hoax or does that steel has actually something unique to offer a demanding user?
The number of knives that have a Damascus blade is rather limited, I believe. Providing I want a good utily, jack of all trades knife (although no real heavy duty use). Wich brands should I considder (where to buy them...). An auto-opener is also a valid option, even a fixed blade. Particular models are welcome too, certainly if you have actual experience with it and that you are aware of it flaws and specific benefits.
I have to admit that I'm rather sceptic about the qualities of Damascus, keeping the price and already excellent performance of other high-end steels in mind (such as the widely hailed VG-10...). Damacus should really be exceptional from a technical viewpoint to top that... Any comments on this issue are very very welcome, I'm considdering the purchase of a Damascus blade but I want to make sure that its quality justifies the high price.
Thanks for your attention and your input!
The number of knives that have a Damascus blade is rather limited, I believe. Providing I want a good utily, jack of all trades knife (although no real heavy duty use). Wich brands should I considder (where to buy them...). An auto-opener is also a valid option, even a fixed blade. Particular models are welcome too, certainly if you have actual experience with it and that you are aware of it flaws and specific benefits.
I have to admit that I'm rather sceptic about the qualities of Damascus, keeping the price and already excellent performance of other high-end steels in mind (such as the widely hailed VG-10...). Damacus should really be exceptional from a technical viewpoint to top that... Any comments on this issue are very very welcome, I'm considdering the purchase of a Damascus blade but I want to make sure that its quality justifies the high price.
Thanks for your attention and your input!
The best answer that I can give you is that Damascus, more properly called Pattern-Welded unless it is really made by the Wootz method of steel production, has no real advantages over modern steels as far as utility is concerned. It is, however, frequently much more handsome to behold. If it is done right, the various different types of iron and steel that went into the making of the blade will, when acid etched, give the blade a sort of patterned appearance. The patterning will vary, depending upon how the forge welding was done. One example was a Bowie Knife that was made as a present for then President Ronald Reagan back in the 1980s. When finished, the patterning showed the United States flag, all thirteen stripes and fifty stars, on both sides of the blade, in perfect form.
Pattern welding was originally developed to combine the toughness of the softer iron with the harder, better edge keeping abilities of high carbon steel by taking rods of each material along with an appropriate flux, heating them to an appropriate temperature in your forge and then pounding them flat and folding that over. Repeat as often as necessary or as desirable to get the blade that you want. Most of the best swords fom the period of the Late Roman Empire up until about 1100 or 1200 CE, IIRC, were made in this manner. After that, the European smiths had developed the technology and the science necessary to make homogeneous steels in sufficient quantities to make swords from it and this was very much easier and faster, so pattern-welding fell out of use and was forgotten until the Twentieth Century when various British scholars set about determining how it was done for purely academic reasons and the famous knife smith, Jim Moran, in Maryland, USA, set about developing it for production purposes. Look up his name on a search engine and drool over his work, which now sells in the multi-thousand dollar range.
To give you an answer to your question, after all of this explanation, which is necessary to understand why "Damascus" is desirable to many people, I will say that its value to you depends upon what priority you place upon the aesthetics of the blade. It will, in all likelihood, be a quite handsome item, but the extra work needed to make it will cost more. So you need to ask yourself if the good looks are worth the extra price, since it contributes little or no extra utility, IMNSHO. But the final choice is, of course, yours to make. Were it my choice, I think that, if the blade looked really nice and the watch was a reasonable trade for it, I would make the trade, not for the utility of the knife, but as a collection piece.
Good luck.
Pattern welding was originally developed to combine the toughness of the softer iron with the harder, better edge keeping abilities of high carbon steel by taking rods of each material along with an appropriate flux, heating them to an appropriate temperature in your forge and then pounding them flat and folding that over. Repeat as often as necessary or as desirable to get the blade that you want. Most of the best swords fom the period of the Late Roman Empire up until about 1100 or 1200 CE, IIRC, were made in this manner. After that, the European smiths had developed the technology and the science necessary to make homogeneous steels in sufficient quantities to make swords from it and this was very much easier and faster, so pattern-welding fell out of use and was forgotten until the Twentieth Century when various British scholars set about determining how it was done for purely academic reasons and the famous knife smith, Jim Moran, in Maryland, USA, set about developing it for production purposes. Look up his name on a search engine and drool over his work, which now sells in the multi-thousand dollar range.
To give you an answer to your question, after all of this explanation, which is necessary to understand why "Damascus" is desirable to many people, I will say that its value to you depends upon what priority you place upon the aesthetics of the blade. It will, in all likelihood, be a quite handsome item, but the extra work needed to make it will cost more. So you need to ask yourself if the good looks are worth the extra price, since it contributes little or no extra utility, IMNSHO. But the final choice is, of course, yours to make. Were it my choice, I think that, if the blade looked really nice and the watch was a reasonable trade for it, I would make the trade, not for the utility of the knife, but as a collection piece.
Good luck.
holdanedge
BANNED
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2002
- Messages
- 177
fullerh, i was wondering if you could please explain the process used to make a design in damascus, where the outcome is conrolled. i do not mean like a random pattern, but like the knife you described for pres. reagan. i saw one with skulls on it i want. how do they do that? is the design just etched on the surface of the blade or is it all the way through the meatal from one side to the other. if i scratch it all up can it be easily restored?
countycomm.com, as i understand it camillus only made the handle from that knife. many people have taken the very good camillus handles and made custom blades for them. it could even be a darrell ralph.
anyways, it could be worth anywhere from $250 to $400. i would think. if a famous maker made the damascus it could be worth even more. ask yourself, how much is the watch worth? do i really want the knife?
obviously, do not trade a $10,000 watch for a $400 knife! unless you just love the knife. it would still be silly do do that, imho.
thank you,
holdanedge.
countycomm.com, as i understand it camillus only made the handle from that knife. many people have taken the very good camillus handles and made custom blades for them. it could even be a darrell ralph.
anyways, it could be worth anywhere from $250 to $400. i would think. if a famous maker made the damascus it could be worth even more. ask yourself, how much is the watch worth? do i really want the knife?
obviously, do not trade a $10,000 watch for a $400 knife! unless you just love the knife. it would still be silly do do that, imho.
thank you,
holdanedge.
holdanedge
BANNED
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2002
- Messages
- 177
some of them are so cool it is beyond beleif. if i get one i will want to carry it. if i carry it i will use it. if i use it it will get worn. on the other hand, if i put it in a case a lot less people will see it. showing it off is part of the pleasure to me. that is my dilemma! 
holdanedge.
holdanedge.
I think a will forfait any desires to acquire a nice Damascus blade, it seems that the only thing that comes in return of the skyhigh price is a subjective esthetic element. Many of you will considder me a barbarian but in truth I even an aversion looking at this uneven steeltype. To me technical advantages are by far the most important factor I want my knives to have. A good look is just a fortunate bonus. I would even dare to state that if a knife hasn't any special technical traits, I won't ever to appreciate its appearance...
Thanks but no thanks, the can keep their precious Damascus!
Thanks but no thanks, the can keep their precious Damascus!
Originally posted by holdanedge
some of them are so cool it is beyond beleif. if i get one i will want to carry it. if i carry it i will use it. if i use it it will get worn. on the other hand, if i put it in a case a lot less people will see it. showing it off is part of the pleasure to me. that is my dilemma!
holdanedge.
Yep, I understand. I feel the same way about some of my collection.