Vanadis 4 Extra Superclean

bodog

bodog

BANNED
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
3,097
I've read the data sheets and I've seen the chemical composition. Third generation processing. Balance between 3V and M390. Does it compare to CTS-XHP? Has anyone here had any real world use? Does it take a fine edge?
 
I know the upcoming Zero Tolerance 0180 fixed blade and 0102 tomahawk both use the Vanadis 4 Extra Superclean powdered tool steel. ZT seems mighty impressed with it for such applications. Kind of like Bohler-Uddeholm's answer to CPM-3V!

7fe55df7745ba17e3e7ab0df30cfeb2f_zpse5dba41a.jpg
 
I 'm never have experience with the Vanadis steel but judge from the composition base on my metallurgy knowledge, Vanadis4E will hold an edge better than M390 at both chopping/slicing motion especially when cutting hard material. M390 while has very high wear resistance it doesn't retained as much edge durability/toughness as Vanadis4E does.
 
Is this steel really that rare? It's supposed to be better than ELMAX, more balanced than 3v and M390, more refined, too. It is ZT's new knife and hatchet that has me interested. There's a supposedly very good maker out of Norway that says it's one of the ultimate knife steels. I'm having a custom made and I requested this steel, but he also uses CTS-XHP. Not sure if he can get any of the vanadis, but he's trying to get some. I'm cool with the CTS-XHP steel if he can't get any. I'm wondering if it's worth the effort for him to try and get some.
 
I'm not a metallurgist so I'm just directing links but there's a Norwegian guy who seriously advocates for it. He seems pretty knowledgeable about it.

http://xxxknives.blogspot.com/2012/03/more-on-vanadis-4-extra.html

It's supposed to have better edge retention than cpm-3v but not as tough. Still 2 1/2 times as tough as D-2 according to this post.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Toughness-Expansion-on-Charpy-C-Notch-Values

Seems like a legit steel for a smaller knife and I'm excited to see how the ZT-0180 performs when I get it.
 
bodog said:
Is this steel really that rare?
Click to expand...

No. It has been used in the car industry and granulators for some time. New manufacturing processes has been able to improve the consistency, cleanliness of the steel.

bodog said:
It's supposed to be better than ELMAX, more balanced than 3v and M390, more refined, too.
Click to expand...

Well, that depends. Better at what? It will not have the wear resistance that Elmax or M390 has, nor the corrosion resistance, but will have better toughness and resistance to cracking and breaking. For a hatchet, that makes sense. It wont outperform something like Calmax with regards to toughness/gross cracking.

Compared to CPM-3V, well, that is quite interesting.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/st...4E,CPM 3V,CPM 4V&ni=646,278,4360&hrn=1&gm=0

It seems Vanadis 4E is more in line with CPM-4V. Here is Crucibles data sheet.

http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/\DataSheets2010\Data Sheet 4V.pdf

Here are 2 patents related to Vanadis 4.

Cold-Working Steel

This is the closest I could find related to looking to the micro-structure of the steel.

Cold work steel EP 1397524 B1

Patent showing edge wear:

Inter-Cell Interference Co-Ordination

Here you can see difference in manufacturing affects:

Microstructure of the spray formed Vanadis 4 steel and its ultrafine structure

bodog said:
It is ZT's new knife and hatchet that has me interested. There's a supposedly very good maker out of Norway that says it's one of the ultimate knife steels.
Click to expand...

As with all steels, it depends on what properties you want. This steel wont be great for long exposures to water as an example, however, I have heard some good thoughts on it from many makers. One being Dan Keffler.

[video]http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1152565-Vanadis-4-Extra-Superclean[/video]


bodog said:
I'm having a custom made and I requested this steel, but he also uses CTS-XHP. Not sure if he can get any of the vanadis, but he's trying to get some. I'm cool with the CTS-XHP steel if he can't get any. I'm wondering if it's worth the effort for him to try and get some.
Click to expand...

Once again, taking into account the properties of steels Vanadis will not be as corrosion resistant as CTS-XHP. Wear resistance is difficult to measure, going through the available information one can see that tempering and control in heat treat will greatly affect the different properties.
 
Last edited:
RamZar said:
I know the upcoming Zero Tolerance 0180 fixed blade and 0102 tomahawk both use the Vanadis 4 Extra Superclean powdered tool steel. ZT seems mighty impressed with it for such applications. Kind of like Bohler-Uddeholm's answer to CPM-3V!

7fe55df7745ba17e3e7ab0df30cfeb2f_zpse5dba41a.jpg
Click to expand...

Sorry to wake this thread up, but according to the Knife Steel Composition Chart iPhone app, Vanadis 4 has 4.7% chromium, while Vanadis 4E has 8% chromium...?

Vanadis.jpg
 
All I know is that Knife Research made a knife with this steel and they were batoning steel bolts with it, no apparent edge damage at all to what I can only guess was their factory edge. Whatever knives are released in this steel, I'm all in.
 
RevDevil said:
All I know is that Knife Research made a knife with this steel and they were batoning steel bolts with it, no apparent edge damage at all to what I can only guess was their factory edge. Whatever knives are released in this steel, I'm all in.
Click to expand...

Good lord, count me in also!!! :eek:
 
RevDevil said:
All I know is that Knife Research made a knife with this steel and they were batoning steel bolts with it, no apparent edge damage at all to what I can only guess was their factory edge. Whatever knives are released in this steel, I'm all in.
Click to expand...

The Knife Research Enki with a 5.5" blade of Vanadis 4 Extra (60 HRC) was designed by Molletta and here's what he says about V4E:

molletta said:
I choose Vanadis 4 extra for KR Enki. Excellent steel but lower corrosion resistance can present a problem with uncoated blade.
Click to expand...

ZT 0180 has a much more attractive price point than the KR Enki plus the tungsten DLC coating should help against the elements.
 
I believe the battoning of steel bolts was with the KR Legion using Sleipner and KR Rasul which used Vanadis 4 not Vanadis 4 Extra.
 
IIRC, there may have been Vanadis 4 and another Vanadis cold work type that was used for some knives aft some point that is also no longer around at. I recall reading that a while back. Vanadis 4E may have taken the place pf booth of them. There are like 6 or 7 steels in the Vanadis family. I do believe that some makers in Europe use the high speed Vanadis 23 when they want a knife with really high abrasion resistance. There can be a bit of overlap in the combined Bohler and Uddeholm lines, but Vanadis 4E seem to be kind of unique in the powder metallurgy line.
RamZar said:
Wasn't there a Vanadis 4 and now a Vanadis 4 Extra?
Click to expand...
 
Norwegian guy mentioned earlier in this thread would be Fred Haakonsen. I have Vanadis 4E utility knife made by him and I only have very positive impressions about it. Vanadis 4E in a small knife at 60-61HRC is rather wasted performance IMHO. Mine is 66HRC and for light/medium cutting never had a chip on it.

Vanadis 4E is much closer to Cricible CPM 4V than Carpenter's CTS-XHP, later has a lot more CR, and Carpenter itself considers it as high hardness 440C. - Vanadis 4E vs. CPM 4V vs. CTS-XHP vs. 440C steel composition comparison

As for the rest of the steels, there's a lot more from Uddeholm than those 4, here - Bohler-Uddeholm steels used in knives
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top