VANAX 37 steel (No, not 35)

Atakdog

Atakdog

Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Messages
195
I saw a video recently showing a custom division Shirogorov F3 labeled VANAX 37 on the blade. At first I was surprised that a company like Shirogorov would send out a $2k knife with a typo, but then I remembered that both Vanax 35 and 75 have been discontinued for several years now. A quick google search revealed absolutely nothing about the steel other than a brief mention of it on a Russian knife forum and this information under the materials section of the Shirogorov website:

VANAX 35

Alloy steel company Uddeholm, chrome, which has high wear resistance and excellent resistance to corrosion.

Composition: C-Carbon - 0,2%, N-Nitrogen - 1,9%, Si-Silicon - 0,3%, Mn-Manganese - 0.3% Chromium Cr - 20.0%, Mo Molybdenum - 2,5%, V- vanadium - 2.8%.

Hardness 59-60 HRC

VANAX 37

New alloy steel from the company Uddeholm, with excellent resistance to corrosion.

Composition: C-Carbon - 0,36%, Si-Silicon - 0,35%, Mn-Manganese - 0,34%, P-Phosphorus - 0,187%, S-Sulphur - 0.009% Chromium Cr - 18.0 %, Ni-Ni - 0.18% Mo Molybdenum - 1,05%, W-Tungsten - 0.06% Cobalt Co-- 0,05%, V- Vanadium - 3.38%, Cu-Copper - 0 09%, Al-Aluminium - 0,005%, N-Nitrogen - 1.53%.

Hardness 59-60 HRC

This composition looks quite interesting. I know enough about carbon-based knife steels to have a good idea what they will do based on their percentages of C, Cr, V, and W, but I'm not going to even try to understand a nitrogen steel with 14 different elements. Maybe some of you out there that know the metallurgy that makes Vanax 35 so cool can explain what this steel will do in comparison to it and other common supersteels like s35vn and m390; I would be very interested to know that.

Anyways, Shirogorov claims that it exists and I have no reason to doubt them, but I'm just wondering why there is absolutely no other info on this steel. If anyone knows anything about it (especially any way to get some) feel free to mention it.
 
Asked a shirogorov associate about the F3 in Vanax37..
He says Vanax 37 is a high-performance powder steel. It is an excellent cutter with solid edge retention, and is extremely corrosion-resistant.
It hasn't been decided if it will be used on further serials.
 
Looking at the the patent that I believe is for Vanax it is quite possible for there to be Vanax 37. The ranges in the patent is quite large and things such as Vanadium ranges from 0.5 to 11 % and Nitrogen from 0.8 to 6.5 %.

Either way the Vanax 37 seems to fall in accordance to the patent to the "second preferred embodiment" from my quick look at the chemistry and comparison.

According to the patent the "second preferred embodiment"

The steel according to the second embodiment is Well
suited to be used in forming and cutting tools With high
demands on corrosion resistance in combination With a high
hardness (up to 60-62 HRC) and a good ductility, as Well as
increased demands on resistance against both abrasive and
adhesive Wear and against galling and fretting. With a com
position according to the table, the steel has a matrix that after
hardening from an austenitiZing temperature of 950-1 1500 C.
and loW temperature tempering at about ZOO-300° C., 2x2 h,
or high temperature tempering at 450-550° C., 2x2 h, is
composed of tempered martensite With a content of hard
phases that consists of up to about 10% by volume each of
M2X, Where M is essentially Cr and X is essentially N, and
MX, Where M is essentially V and X is essentially N.

The 61/62 HRC is achieved through Deep Freeze or Sub Zero treatment.

Either way, I am glad to see another Nitrogen containing steel.
 
That's quite a patent with those % ranges !!
Galling is cold welding . Fretting is wearing away the protective oxide on the surface ,oxidizing of the fresh surface .This repeated again and again.Seen in situations where vibration is present such as an automobile bearing when the auto is transported on a railroad !
" Deep Freeze or Sub-zero treatment " Do they mean deep freeze as another term meaning sub-zero or deep freeze meaning Cryogenic cooling to Liquid Nitrogen tems ?? Cryo will give you eta carbides which gives you another 1-2 HRc points ??
 
mete said:
That's quite a patent with those % ranges !!
Galling is cold welding . Fretting is wearing away the protective oxide on the surface ,oxidizing of the fresh surface .This repeated again and again.Seen in situations where vibration is present such as an automobile bearing when the auto is transported on a railroad !
" Deep Freeze or Sub-zero treatment " Do they mean deep freeze as another term meaning sub-zero or deep freeze meaning Cryogenic cooling to Liquid Nitrogen tems ?? Cryo will give you eta carbides which gives you another 1-2 HRc points ??
Click to expand...

Mete, the patent only mentions DF in the tables but in the heat treatment section a range of -40 to -196 degrees Celsius combined with tempering ranges of 200C for 2x2h yielding 61HRC and then tempering range 500C for 2x2h to reach HRC 62 for steel no. 7's composition (they have around 10 steels listed and sometimes 4 different heat treating methods showing the RA % and associated HRC values).

If I remember correctly, and feel free to correct me, but Deep Freeze is up to around -78 C with dry ice and acetone and sub-zero is liquid nitrogen at -196 C.

It is quite a patent running 27 pages and a lot of steels hardening, composition, retained austenite, corrosion etc. figures and tables. Quite honestly I have not read everything. Dont have the time.
 
Here we don't use the term Deep Freeze.
We have Sub-zero at about -73 to - 78 C [ - 100 to - 110 F ]
and Cryogenic -196 [ - 300 F , Liquid Nitrogen ]
Sub-zero has been used for many years and Cryo is a newer term and it permits the formation of eta carbides . Both will reduce Retained Austenite.
 
mete said:
Here we don't use the term Deep Freeze.
We have Sub-zero at about -73 to - 78 C [ - 100 to - 110 F ]
and Cryogenic -196 [ - 300 F , Liquid Nitrogen ]
Sub-zero has been used for many years and Cryo is a newer term and it permits the formation of eta carbides . Both will reduce Retained Austenite.
Click to expand...

Thanks mete.
 
It is interesting that the higher tempering temperature yields higher hardness. The steel must be getting an extra kick in hardness thru precipitation hardening.

Dan
 
its just not very available, even if you find it its not going to be cheap, also you would have to have it in the right size for knives.
heck, LC200n was just as costly as s110v.

This steel might be even more costly to manufacture.

Yikes

dont forgot the money to invest into finding the best heat treat.

question is, would you pay $200-300 more just for this steel on top of a already $200 knife?

I don't think its that good hahaha, but ive been wrong before.
 
CPP said:
Any problems with edge rolling with Vanax 37?
Click to expand...

I have not had issues with mine. Granted, I'm not a hard user of any knives, but I have not at all held back on my Shiro with Vanax 37 just because it's my most expensive knife and I'd hate to damage it. I use it same as any knife I own, and it does seem to hold an edge a little better. No rolled edges. Maybe just the tiniest of nicks (micro, not chips), but no rolling.
 
The edge on my HatiOn has rolled twice now. I wasn't really paying attention to what I had been cutting the first time but I know i use it to cut anything outside of the usual paper, cardboard and plastic–I do remember cutting open plastic packaging just before I noticed the rolling. I sharpened it using the manufacturers bevel angle and used it to cut out the safety packaging on glass spice containers. Perhaps the edge had a direct hit on the glass?
 
Rolling is going to be determined by the hardness. My large EDC blade in Vanax SuperClean at 60 Rc hasn't rolled or chipped, even during chopping, even with a thin edge (fifteen thousandths). It's been a standout steel.
 
Update on Vanax SC( they call it Vanax 37 in Europe)

I've been testing for several months now and it's safe to make some conclusions about Vanax Superclean (37)

It is tougher then Elmax and cuts just about as long as Elmax.

The edge is easier to sharpen then Elmax.

The steel is ridiculously expensive so you'll probably ONLY, see it in customs.

As of 2018, it's the most balanced steel across all reams of performance relative to each attribute compared to other steels that also try to accomplish the same balance.

Wear resistance from Very Hard Vanadium Nitrides.
Almost rust proof with low carbon high chromium with nitrigen for strength
Ease of sharpening from very fine grain and fine vanadium nitrides.
Toughness from lower carbon and microstructure.


The only drawback is cost and lack of high Hardness, however if any steel goes past 60rc the raw tougheness is traded some. So you can argue that 60rc is part of what makes Vanax SC what it is. Balance.

Some people will actually find they are getting more edge holding then m390 simply because of the stability and because it's easier to sharpen so they are starting with a sharper edge then other comparible steels.

People will be happy with Vanax SC.

Especially if the Heattreating is done properly.

The higher tempering for a small bumb in hardness is not recommend, it reduces the rust proofing. Again, with Vanax your paying for balance.

I enjoy the steel. Makes a good user knife.

Damasteel also uses it for there DC18N
The core steel is N11x AKA Vanax SC
 
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