Vanax for the Sebenza

T

Twindog

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When I first got interested in knives, the Sebenza was top shelf -- and incredibly expensive. These days, lots of knives are more expensive; and the Sebenza has lost some pizzazz to knives with better steels, better features and comparable fit and finish.

The Sebenza needs to get that pizzazz back, but without changing the basic functions that make the knife so good.

I'd propose switching to Vanax SuperClean steel. It's the toughest stainless powder steel on the market. It's more stainless than M390, S35VN or pretty much any other stainless steel.

It's fine grained, easy to put on a very sharp edge. It holds an edge very well -- about in the Elmax range.

Shirogorov was using the steel (Vanax 37) for a while, but it has dropped it, apparently because it didn't sell as well. But there was no marketing to tell people how Vanax shines as a knife steel.

The Sebenza in Vanax would be THE knife to get.
 
The most important aspects of any blade are edge retention and corrosion resistance. There's really no steel out there with a better combination of both than M390. If they're gonna switch steels, that'd be my preference.

I'm sure someone will chime in and say X is easier to sharpen, but that just means you'll be sharpening more often. It might take an extra 10 minutes to sharpen M390, but if the edge stays sharper 3x longer, you're actually saving time.
 
Anarchy84 said:
The most important aspects of any blade are edge retention and corrosion resistance. There's really no steel out there with a better combination of both than M390. If they're gonna switch steels, that'd be my preference.

I'm sure someone will chime in and say X is easier to sharpen, but that just means you'll be sharpening more often. It might take an extra 10 minutes to sharpen M390, but if the edge stays sharper 3x longer, you're actually saving time.
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M390 is a great steel, but it's edge retention is only slightly better than Elmax and Vanax. In the manufacturer's own tests, M390 got 958.6 TCC (Total Cards Cut), vs. 930.7 for Elmax. I believe Vanax is a bit better than Elmax on edge retention, although I can't find any tests; and Vanax is tougher than M390, so your edge is less likely to chip.

And Vanax is super stain resistant. Plus -- chiming in -- Vanax is easier to sharpen than M390.

On edge stability (if you count toughness and strength), Vanax will be better.

I just think that the Sebenza would be a better knife -- and have more street appeal -- with a better steel.
 
There is little motivation for CRK to change when their entire output is still sold out, or spoken for, months in advance. I believe the properties of S35VN helps CRK in making such good looking grinds and surface treatments. I would say that’s probably higher on their list than edge retention, ironically.

Myself, I would love a non-stainless CRK in CPM M4. That is the steel that has most impressed me.
 
CRK makes a great blade that is also easy to sharpen. No fancy $800 sharpening system is needed. One factor of the CRK is ease of maintenance. The other is how the steel works with their manufacturing process, and availability of a steady supply. I think they have what they want, and I am personally fine with their decision. I have no complaints about my Sebenza. Many a fine knife has been made and served it's owner well without using the newest super steel, of which a great % never see action.
At this point you may have guessed that I am not in the needs a better steel or hardness camp :)
 
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Twindog said:
I just think that the Sebenza would be a better knife -- and have more street appeal -- with a better steel.
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I completely agree. While I love my Sebenzas and have never had a single issue with S35VN, I believe that companies owe it to their customers to continue innovating and using modern materials if they're going to charge a premium for their product. This same principle applies to electronics, clothing, food, home goods and countless other industries. It also applies to knife makers.

As a previous commenter noted, the incentive for CRK to change really isn't there when their books are continually full a year in advance. They'll come around eventually, though.

And look on the bright side, at least they're not charging $1,000 for RWL34. Some makers are still doing that in 2020. :rolleyes:
 
Anarchy84 said:
They'll come around eventually, though.
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They likely will change at some point-this is the 4th steel they have used as far as I know. I am going to guess it will be on their schedule, not ours. When they see the need and benefit they will change.
 
Tim has already stated they'll switch to s45vn once they finish their current blade stock. And any steel they use will be US produced. They were advised against CPM 20CV/M390 for the properties they value in a folder blade.
 
kidcongo said:
There is little motivation for CRK to change when their entire output is still sold out, or spoken for, months in advance. I believe the properties of S35VN helps CRK in making such good looking grinds and surface treatments. I would say that’s probably higher on their list than edge retention, ironically.

Myself, I would love a non-stainless CRK in CPM M4. That is the steel that has most impressed me.
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I've said many times. M4 is my go to steel other than a well rounded user like S35VN.
 
BellaBlades said:
I've said many times. M4 is my go to steel other than a well rounded user like S35VN.
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M4 is the only steel, in my personal experience, that actually lived up to all the hype. It’s amazing just how long it holds a fine edge, at least with Spyderco’s heat treat. Anyways.......getting off topic, but hey.......I would love me a nice rusty Sebenza with a blotchy blade of beautiful CPM M4!!!
 
Wasn't Reeve instrumental developing S35VN as the first steel actually designed for a knife? (Maybe I've got that a little wrong)
Definitely an argument for the maker to keep it around if that's the case.
 
Barman1 said:
Wasn't Reeve instrumental developing S35VN as the first steel actually designed for a knife? (Maybe I've got that a little wrong)
Definitely an argument for the maker to keep it around if that's the case.
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Chris was instrumental in developing S30v with Crucible as the first steel designed for knife blade manufacturing. Chris then noticed micro-chipping and some other factors that made S30v less appealing in his eyes so he pushed for Crucible to make improvements and S35vn was born.

S45vn will be interesting, I think. Supposedly, from what I’ve read from other keyboard warriors, it has minor upgrades across the board in comparison to S35vn. I agree that Vanax would be a great upgrade from what we know about current knife steels but I also think I will reserve my full impression of S45vn until after enough of it has been out for a while for more well rounded testing from the community.
 
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I became a Vanax fan when I had a reblade of my S30V EDC with Vanax. It's such a difference: easier to sharpen, cuts more aggressively, holds an edge better, and I don't have to worry about chipping. I think Vanax beats S30V and S35VN in every category.
 
There are a number of steels I prefer over S35VN for my usage, but I like the overall CRK package so much I accept this slight compromise.
 
Anarchy84 said:
And look on the bright side, at least they're not charging $1,000 for RWL34. Some makers are still doing that in 2020. :rolleyes:
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Whats wrong with RWL34?

As to Vanax, the patent was originally lodged in 2005. Us patent was 2013. It covers such a wide variety of chemistry they could develop many forms of it.

We will see where it goes in future. Few steels were actually developed for use in knives. We have adopted a lot from the plastic mould industry as of late.
 
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kidcongo said:
M4 is the only steel, in my personal experience, that actually lived up to all the hype. It’s amazing just how long it holds a fine edge, at least with Spyderco’s heat treat. Anyways.......getting off topic, but hey.......I would love me a nice rusty Sebenza with a blotchy blade of beautiful CPM M4!!!
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M4 is so good. I'm also digging K390, btw.

I'm not opposed to a different steel in a CRK but they heat treat their s35vn so well that it performs exactly like it should. I dig it.
 
S45VN is good natural successor of S35VN. It is awesome regarding corrosion resistance, sharpens easily, takes very keen and aggressive edge, wear resistance is clearly better than S35VN. Overall not a massive improvement, more like serious evolution than revolution. Which is good. But there’s also (imho) no point to ‚wait for it’ which is also important.

BTW, that new S45VN was also seriously field tested, long term, in many applications & environments. I know it was. Wait for it ;)

20200223-DSCF3932.jpg
 
PiterM said:
BTW, that new S45VN was also seriously field tested, long term, in many applications & environments. I know it was. Wait for it ;)
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Did CRK work with Crucible for this evolution (S35vn to S45vn) like they did with the evolution of S30v to S35vn or did Crucible do this independently?
 
I’m sure they were somehow involved, but I’m not sure to which extent.

and BTW, no, it’s not coming any time soon. It’ll ve natural succession at some point. Mid 2020? Late 2020? Early 2021? All depends on you guys, you need to make a space for S45VN in the facility in Boise ;)
 
Is that photoshopped, or are there some 45 blades out there?? Sorry if I missed it.....
 
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