Various questions...Sharpening, Stropping, etc.

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Mk00001

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Sep 7, 2004
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Can a kitchen knife be honed on sandpaper? I would think it is possible and do any of you use this method??

When using the Lee Valley green honing compound, does it need to be removed from a leather strop after use? And what is the most appropriate way of putting it on the strop?
 
Mk00001 said:
Can a kitchen knife be honed on sandpaper? I would think it is possible and do any of you use this method??

When using the Lee Valley green honing compound, does it need to be removed from a leather strop after use? And what is the most appropriate way of putting it on the strop?
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Sandpaper layed on a piece of plate glass will give you a flat surface and can work very well. There really isn't any difference between this and using a stone. With a stone you may have to re-flatten it from time to time as it gets worn and gives you an uneven surface. With sandpaper you'll have to throw it out once it wears out.

The only problem with this is you have to hold a consistent angle to get good results and this can take a lot of practice and skill. So it's easier to just use something like the Spyderco Sharpmaker 204, a Lansky system, EdgePro, or whatever your budget lets you afford.

As far as the strop, if you're going to load it with compound then it's going to be dedicated for that use. You will leave the compound on it after you use it. I have been told to use Baby Oil (mineral oil) to help the strop absorb the compound. I have tried this and had good results.

I find stropping isn't very useful for regular real world applications, other than shaving your fact. Although if your planning on touching up a paring knife to do something fancy with a tomato it might he worth trying. :)
 
sor the strop, yes, I guess that would be true for knives. However, I plan on using the strop for straight razors AND for dressing up some woodworking tools, like plane blades and perhaps chisels.

What is the correct angle for a kitchen knife over a stone or sandpaper? It shouldn't be too hard to make a jig to hold it at the appropriate angle.
 
the correct angle varies with each knife. Best to "play it by ear"...or, by touch, rather.


Try this:

Hold the blade flat against the strop. Start pulling it back toward you (edge trailing). Slowly increase the angle until the sensation changes from "smooth" to "scraping". Once it starts to feel rough - that's the right stropping angle.

It will likely be higher than the angle you sharpened at.

Also, start with firm pressure and get lighter with each stroke.

Best of luck!
 
but what about the angle when honing initially? I have a kitchen knife that is tremendously dull and needs honing. However, other than guess about what angle is on the other knives, I don't know what angle I should try to hone it.
 
If it already has a small bevel on it, do this:

Hold the blade flat against a piece of smooth wood. Push the knife forward (edge leading), increasing the angle until it "catches". That's the angle already set on the blade - stick to it for ease of sharpening.


Otherwise, if it's in really bad shape, get a kids-size protractor and set it on your strop. Approximate the best you can around 20-25 degrees between the blade and the sharpening surface for best results.
 
If you are stropping a straight razor to prepare it for shaving your face you shouldn't be using any kind of compound. You should only use a strop dressing that contains no abrasive material, just a fatty oil to condition the strop. You can use a strop with compound after honing a straight razor, but you should always finsih on plain leather before use.

For the kitchen knife it depends on what kind of kitchen knife and what you want to do with it. You might go 15 degrees per side on a paring knife and 25 degrees per side on a meat clever. Generally 17-20 degrees (per side, 34-40 degrees total) is good for most kitchen applications.
 
Actually the strop will dull the blade if the angle is too much, when stropping the leather wraps around the edge of the knife because it's so flexible, this with the compound polishes away the wire edge.

Another mistake most people make when stropping is rolling the edge of the knife by lifting the spine while the edge is still in contact with the strop essentially dulling the edge.
 
Since 9/11 I don't bring a hone in my carry on luggage (they might declare it a lethal weapon). On the other hand all my friends and relations expect me to sharpen their knives when I stay with them. I go down to the local Walmart and buy a variety pack of 3M Wet or Dry paper (silicon carbide paper). I look for something with a grit range between about 120 and 600. I lay a piece of paper grit-up on something like the edge of a kitchen counter and keep it stabilized with my left hand. Starting with the 120 grit I hone back and forth on one side until I start to feel an edge burr on the opposite side. I totally ignore the original honed bevel of the blade (I couldn't care less). I use something in the neighborhood of 15 degrees, but being precise doesn't matter in the least. For a wide chefs knife or other wide kitchen knives I guage the angle from the width of my thumb. If I press the spine of the blade into the center of my thumb, lay the blade edge on the paper, and lay the side of my thumb on the paper I will be at a reasonable honing angle. When I do the other side of the blade I will use about 3/4 the width of my index finger as an angle spacer.

After I have done this major reprofiling using the 120 grit I move on to something around 220 grit for the next step. I want to remove the burr (thin foil-like metal residue on the edge) left from the 120 grit. From this point on I do most of my honing using edge-forwards strokes (rather than back and forth or edge-trailing stropping) to help get rid of burrs. I tip the spine of the blade up further away from the paper as I do some light deburring strokes. If I used half of my thumb width to hone with I use my whole thumb width as a spacer when I do deburring strokes (I am doubling the honing angle). For deburring and most of the subsequent sharpening strokes I use light strokes on alternating sides of the edge (left-side, right-side, left-side, right-side). Deburring probably only takes about 10 strokes (5 left, 5 right).

After these double angle deburring strokes I go back to my normal half-thumb-width angle for honing. I do about 10 strokes per side (alternating sides) on the 220 grit, then do 10 per side on 320 grit, then 10 strokes per side on 400 grit, then 10 strokes per side on 600 grit. To finish the edge I may elevate my honing angle slightly and do a few very light strokes on the 600 grit.

You need to be sure that the surface under your paper is pretty hard and smooth or the paper will sort of wrap around your edge and round the edge off. It also helps to use very light pressure as you hone.
 
If you want to strop a straight razor, I recommend using a dedicated razor (hanging) strop. Usually they are two sided: one canvas, loaded with white stropping compound, the other high quality leather, not loaded just as WadeF said. For tools and other knives, get a second strop mounted on wood and load it with Veritas green. Your face will thank you.
 
I have been useing stones and a steel my whole life with nothing in between until I found bladeforums and knifeforums.I thought my knives were the best they could be but I found out different!And I am a professional chef who uses knives to bring home the bacon!Since reading these sites I have learned to use diamond and ceramic stones to place my bevels(I go about 15 on the back and 20 on the edge). I then switch to 3m sanpaper for auto body work and have glued these grits to some old soft mousepads.I start with 600 grit and then got to 1000,1500and finally 2000.I then made a leather strop from an old belt and glued it on wood and charged it with the 3m polishing compound! Man all I can say is what a difference this has made to my knife maintenence!Yes I know that this procedure is taking away my double bevel and putting a more convex edge on the blade but all I can say from experience is that it works.I use my knives pretty heavy and all I have had to do for the last month is strop on the sandpaper and leather strop and the preformance is great. The knife blades hold up so much better and with much less steeling for straitining the edge.I think its the burr removeing that helps but I am to far new at this to say why.All I can say is it is cheap, easy, and not messy(heck you can do it while on the computer or whatching TV).
Hope my input helps, Keep Cooking,Doug......................
 
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