VG-1 San Mai III by Cold Steel

C

Confederate

Joined
Sep 5, 2005
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The idea of a sandwiched, multi-layered steel makes sense if the middle steel is Carbon V and the two outer layers are 420 stainless, but I fear that CS is pushing its luck by trying to sell a San Mai steel that's VG-1 stainless in the middle and 420 on the panels.

What POSSIBLE advantage could there be to layering two stainless steels? You've got VG-1 in the middle acting as the super edge retention steel, then you've got the 420 as panels supposedly adding "toughness"? Is Cold Steel really trying to sell the idea that the 420 on the sides is really going to protect the VG-1 steel from blows?

VG-1 does have higher edge retention than 420 and I suppose 420 is more corrosion resistent than VG-1, but are the two dissimilar enough to be layering them?

I'm still not clear on whether VG-1 is a major upgrade from AUS 8A or not. Corrosion isn't an issue with me, but edge retention and toughness are. So far, I haven't been able to find out if VG-1 is SUBSTANTIALLY better.

I have Vaqueros in both AUS 8A and VG-1 and performance wise, I can't see much of a difference. Of course with serrated blades, I don't think there would be. The latter may be more susceptible to losing teeth than the former, but neither has been a problem with me.
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cs-21gns.jpg
 
Are you confusing VG-1 with VG-10? I was under the impression they were completely different, with VG-1 having more in common with 440a or 420 than with VG-10.

Also, Fallkniven sandwiches VG-10 between 420J2 as well. The 420 is much more ductile than the VG-10, so it tends to handle shock and impact better. It also lowers the cost of the knife, because the major machining operations take place on the softer 420 sides, rather than on the harder VG-10.

Of course, this is just what I gather from reading posts on here, so I may be completely off the mark.
 
No, VG-1 is a different animal and it's the one Cold Steel uses. I have a catalog that describes it as VG-1 San Mai III. Just got the catalog;, in fact, and I'm ticked because most of the prices have already increased substantially.
 
what Chris said above.... 420 is more ducticle then VG-1.
So you get the best of both worlds (supposedly) ... edge
retention and ductility. Seems to work for Falkniven.

Also..... I'm not sure VG-1 has anything in common to 440a and 420
besides being stainless. It has 2x or more carbon then 420HC
and other stuff besides.

see previous discussion:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409934
 
Maybe so, but I can understand sandwiching a premium or very high carbon steel much more than...well...a kind of cheap steel. Cold Steel makes many blades out of VG-1 now and the blades are pretty strong. In other words, I'm not sure the inside of the sandwich is necessarily worth sticking in between the bread. In short, it's kind of like sticking wheat bread between two pieces of white bread.

VG-10, 154CM, ATS-34 and carbon steel all would be worthy stuffing, I think, but VG-1 or AUS 8A? I'd need some convincing. The San Mai is marketed by Cold Steel as being the hot setup for knives.
 
Confederate, I see what you mean. Unfortunately I think it's just another of Cold Steel's ploys to hype their products up.
 
Chris Mapp said:
Also, Fallkniven sandwiches VG-10 between 420J2 as well. The 420 is much more ductile than the VG-10, so it tends to handle shock and impact better. It also lowers the cost of the knife, because the major machining operations take place on the softer 420 sides, rather than on the harder VG-10.
Click to expand...

Using laminated steel, like Fällkniven does with VG-10 sandwiched between 420J2, makes production more expensive and not cheaper, as far as I know anyway. As for VG-1, who knows. It's kind of like Carbon V - just a name Cold Steel made up.
 
Elen said:
Y-es, but is Cold Steel using that steel, or just using the VG-1 name for something else? I can't claim to know. After all, "VG-1 San Mai III" sounds awful much like hype to me. Lots of big words but little actual information.
Click to expand...

They're using VG-1 as the edge steel of their San Mai III.
"San Mai" apparently means "three layers"; however if the "III" stands for something else than 3rd generation (for CS) then I have no idea.

So whereas CS usually uses a lot of big words, this actually isn't all that bad.
 
Elen said:
Y-es, but is Cold Steel using that steel, or just using the VG-1 name for something else? I can't claim to know. After all, "VG-1 San Mai III" sounds awful much like hype to me. Lots of big words but little actual information.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. It's one thing to use a made-up name to hide what steel you are using. It is something quite different to use someone else's trademarked name for that purpose. "San Mai III" is Cold Steel's to use as they wish. "VG1" is someone else's name. Cold steel cannot use it for just any steel.

If Cold Steel says they are using "VG1" in their "San Mai III" laminated steel, then that is what they are doing.
 
knarfeng said:
Nonsense. It's one thing to use a made-up name to hide what steel you are using. It is something quite different to use someone else's trademarked name for that purpose. "San Mai III" is Cold Steel's to use as they wish. "VG1" is someone else's name. Cold steel cannot use it for just any steel.

If Cold Steel says they are using "VG1" in their "San Mai III" laminated steel, then that is what they are doing.
Click to expand...

Well, like I said, I don't know. If you do, good for you. What you said makes sense to me, though.
 
kevral said:
They're using VG-1 as the edge steel of their San Mai III.
"San Mai" apparently means "three layers"; however if the "III" stands for something else than 3rd generation (for CS) then I have no idea.
Click to expand...

The Japanese language uses "counters" to designate the type of item to which the number refers. Thus "san mai" simply means three flat things. It could refer to sheets of paper, computer disks, layers of steel, etc. "San kai" means third floor or third time. "San sai" means three years old. Nothing mystical or unique.
 
knarfeng is bang on on this one boys vg-1 has been sold in lots if high end japanese chefs knives for years!!!!!!!
 
I suspect the advantage is a hard edge with ductile reinforcement, regardless of who does it. It isn't necessary for carbon blades since they can simply be differentially heat treated for those properties. 420J2 is a good steel, just not for a cutting edge. As for mystery steels, it's common practice like Tru-Sharp, Schrade+, and Infi.:) Regards, ss.
 
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