VG-10 edge degredation

T

THG

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May 18, 2008
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I've noticed that the sharpness of my VG-10 edges seem to degrade after no use at all. I sharpen these knives with DMT stones all the way up to EF. They are sharp enough to catch my nail at the slightest touch. Then about a week later, they can't even catch my nail anymore (although they are still sharp).

I would suspect a burr, but I can't see or feel one. Also, this doesn't happen to any of my other knives: not S30V, not 440V, not ZDP-189, and not 13C26. This only happens with VG-10.

Has anybody else also experienced this?
 
I'd go with the burr theory; VG-10 is tough to get that final burr off, similar to D2 and S30V. I wipe my F1 down with BreakFree before storing it for any length of time, and haven't noticed any degradation. I keep it hair shaving sharp.
 
I've not noticed that with my Spyerco Endura or my AG Russell Ultimate Pen Knife (or 2.5" & 3" versions) - In fact I really like VG-10 because my experience with it is VERY positive.

I keep my Ultimate Pen Knife in my pocket (front door key, fauxton light & UPK) when getting my daily exercise by going for a 1 hour walk because it is so small & light I barely feel it. After more than 10 months of ownership and with only occasional light use it is still sharp enough to shave arm or leg hair - as soon as it isn't that sharp I'll get around to sharpening it myself. If it is still 'shaving sharp' after 10+ months then I am satisfied that it doesn't go blunt on its own.

My Endura is a bit different - I'm always playing with it and sharpening it. I've ground down the blade on XX Course diamonds until the saber grind is now a scandi grind. I have sharpened it on a strop and it seems to stay just as sharp even if I resist playing with it for a week or 2.
 
THG said:
I've noticed that the sharpness of my VG-10 edges seem to degrade after no use at all. I sharpen these knives with DMT stones all the way up to EF. They are sharp enough to catch my nail at the slightest touch. Then about a week later, they can't even catch my nail anymore (although they are still sharp).

I would suspect a burr, but I can't see or feel one. Also, this doesn't happen to any of my other knives: not S30V, not 440V, not ZDP-189, and not 13C26. This only happens with VG-10.

Has anybody else also experienced this?
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It happened to me with S90V, in the end its just a burr and one so small you can usually only feel it by letting the edge "bite" your finger or under high magnification. Lighter finishing strokes and a strop or UF ceramic would probably be the ticket. The spyderco UF ceramic and VG-10 go well together ;)
 
knifenut1013 said:
It happened to me with S90V, in the end its just a burr and one so small you can usually only feel it by letting the edge "bite" your finger or under high magnification. Lighter finishing strokes and a strop or UF ceramic would probably be the ticket. The spyderco UF ceramic and VG-10 go well together ;)
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The weird thing is that this doesn't happen on any of my other knives, though. It's only VG-10 that does this.
 
THG said:
The weird thing is that this doesn't happen on any of my other knives, though. It's only VG-10 that does this.
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Yes it is a very weird thing when it happens and even stranger when it happens to just one knife.

For burr inspection try stropping the edge on your finger nail instead of doing the catch method. As you strop the edge on your finger nail you will feel all the rough spots at a more defined level. if the edge is burr free it will feel like glass.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Yes it is a very weird thing when it happens and even stranger when it happens to just one knife.

For burr inspection try stropping the edge on your finger nail instead of doing the catch method. As you strop the edge on your finger nail you will feel all the rough spots at a more defined level. if the edge is burr free it will feel like glass.
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It happens on all of my VG-10 knives, but not just one specific knife. I've had ZDP-189 Delicas, and they didn't exhibit this phenomenon.

I do that finger nail trick all the time to check if my burr is gone, and I stop sharpening all of my knives at the same point (when it doesn't kick up any nail enamel.)

I have a 13C26 knife (Kershaw JYD) that I haven't used nor sharpened for a while, and it's still as sharp as after I just sharpened it 2 or 3 months ago. I also have an S30V Kershaw Avalanche that I sharpened 3 or 4 weeks ago, and it's still as sharp as right after it came off the stone.

Now with my VG-10 knives, I have 2 Delicas. I sharpened one of them about 3 weeks ago. The edge can't grab my nail anymore, yet it passes the nail-burr test. And then the other Delica I sharpened a couple weeks ago. It was actually one of the sharpest edges I've ever gotten. A week later, it could barely catch my nail, and now it can't really do it at all.

That's how specific this is to VG-10 for me.
 
That is kinda odd.

For my VG-10 blades I like a very high polish so I really have no experience with the steel at the EF finish. It was designed to take a very fine edge and that's what I have always given it.

Maybe a finer finish? do you have a UF ceramic?
 
THG said:
I've noticed that the sharpness of my VG-10 edges seem to degrade after no use at all. I sharpen these knives with DMT stones all the way up to EF. They are sharp enough to catch my nail at the slightest touch. Then about a week later, they can't even catch my nail anymore (although they are still sharp).

I would suspect a burr, but I can't see or feel one. Also, this doesn't happen to any of my other knives: not S30V, not 440V, not ZDP-189, and not 13C26. This only happens with VG-10.

Has anybody else also experienced this?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you aren't getting the burr off and once you start cutting the edge is gone or it dulls very fast.
 
knifenut1013 said:
That is kinda odd.

For my VG-10 blades I like a very high polish so I really have no experience with the steel at the EF finish. It was designed to take a very fine edge and that's what I have always given it.

Maybe a finer finish? do you have a UF ceramic?
Click to expand...

EF is the finest I have. I might try a finer finish sometime in the future.

It's not like my knives are unusable; they're still pretty sharp. They just don't have that "scary sharpness" that I like to start off with.

Ankerson said:
Sounds like you aren't getting the burr off and once you start cutting the edge is gone or it dulls very fast.
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This is all without doing any cutting at all after sharpening. I sharpen, let it sit for a week or two without using it, and then I get some edge degradation.

Also, you know what? I remember a year or two ago, I had my Delica Wave that I was carrying but not using for a long time. I got a hair-splitting edge on it, and it did stay sharp for a while. But after a couple months (of no use), I was doing the nail sharpness test again, and it wouldn't catch. I looked at the edge, and there was shine all over it as if it had been used, but it was very uniform; the wear looked even from the ricasso to the tip.

I'm just wondering why this is. It must be me and my methods or something I do if this doesn't happen to anyone else, but why this steel?
 
THG said:
This is all without doing any cutting at all after sharpening. I sharpen, let it sit for a week or two without using it, and then I get some edge degradation.

Also, you know what? I remember a year or two ago, I had my Delica Wave that I was carrying but not using for a long time. I got a hair-splitting edge on it, and it did stay sharp for a while. But after a couple months (of no use), I was doing the nail sharpness test again, and it wouldn't catch. I looked at the edge, and there was shine all over it as if it had been used, but it was very uniform; the wear looked even from the ricasso to the tip.

I'm just wondering why this is. It must be me and my methods or something I do if this doesn't happen to anyone else, but why this steel?
Click to expand...

Now that is really weird. :confused:
 
I get that now and again, and know some people report the same thing. I want to believe that it has to do with memory of the steel, where the steel wants to curl or bunch slightly. If that was the case, then it could be about the individual piece of steel rather than every one of the type or heat treat.

Whether that is right...:D
 
Any Cal. said:
I get that now and again, and know some people report the same thing. I want to believe that it has to do with memory of the steel, where the steel wants to curl or bunch slightly. If that was the case, then it could be about the individual piece of steel rather than every one of the type or heat treat.

Whether that is right...:D
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I knew I wasn't loosing my mind - I've run into this a couple of times over the years. The last was a Benchmade 154cm model 720. I went back, put it to 120 grit stone and worked my way up. It got better, but still never took an edge like the 722 I also owned at the same time (same knife, just with a tanto edge). Must have something to do with the heat treatment. Aside from having an badly asymmetrical edge grind from the factory, this is the most frustrating thing I've encountered when it comes to knife maintenance.
 
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