VG 10 Edge Question

K

K80Shooter

Basic Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2018
Messages
335
Hello all,

My wife has taken a liking to a couple of kitchen knives with damascas and vg10 edge. I'm not used to this steel and was wondering what degree per side should they be sharpened at. One is a 8" chefs knife and the other is a 5" utility knife. I'll probably add a couple of others if this holds up good.

Also is this steel better with a toothy edge or polished? She seems to like her other paring knives with a polished edge for peeling vegies and such. I sharpen them and finish at either 5,000 or 10,000 water stones and then strop with leather.

Any suggestion/advice is welcome.
 
The answers very much depends on the heat treatment (varies by manufacturer), taste, and what she mostly preps.

VG-10 can take a reasonably refined edge. With a decent heat treatment you might take it down to 12 degrees. You could go steeper, but you'll be sharpening a lot more. Really 15 degrees is fairly standard.
Generally, if processing meat many like to go no higher than a 3K edge with some stropping. Or if it is mostly vegetables 8K+.
But others have been known to take it higher with great results - there are pros on each side.
Personally I've been satisfied with 12K edges.
And this is before factoring preferred edge life.

So no matter what anybody answers, there is some experimentation to find what works for the two of you.
 
Ourorboros said:
The answers very much depends on the heat treatment (varies by manufacturer), taste, and what she mostly preps.

VG-10 can take a reasonably refined edge. With a decent heat treatment you might take it down to 12 degrees. You could go steeper, but you'll be sharpening a lot more. Really 15 degrees is fairly standard.
Generally, if processing meat many like to go no higher than a 3K edge with some stropping. Or if it is mostly vegetables 8K+.
But others have been known to take it higher with great results - there are pros on each side.
Personally I've been satisfied with 12K edges.
And this is before factoring preferred edge life.

So no matter what anybody answers, there is some experimentation to find what works for the two of you.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ourorboros,
This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I did set the chefs knife at 15 degrees and the utility at 13 degrees but was just wondering what most people had found works for them.
 
It also depends is it a Japanese Chef knife if so a lot sharpen them at 10 to 12 degree's per-side,if it has a thicker spine go with 13 to 15.
For my Japanese Chef knives I go with 11 degree's.
 
wade7575 said:
It also depends is it a Japanese Chef knife if so a lot sharpen them at 10 to 12 degree's per-side,if it has a thicker spine go with 13 to 15.
For my Japanese Chef knives I go with 11 degree's.
Click to expand...

The chefs knife is 2.2mm thick and the utility is 1.8mm thick.
 
If it's not really thin like a Japanese Chef then I would stick between 13 and 15 degree's for sure,VG10 is a pretty good steel but doesn't have the worlds greatest edge retention and if it's a bit thicker like a western style knife then I would stay closer to 14 degree's that way it won't dull as fast.
 
Few things is life are more pleasant than watching a woman's delicate hands peeling vegetables with a sharp knife. I loved to watch my Grandma and my Mom do it and now I watch my wife of 42 years do it. It's the little things is life that matter......
 
I recently acquired a Japanese VG-10 knife which was beautiful, but I did not like how it cut. Decided to reprofile it, and it was ground at something like 37 degrees! That's not exact, the bevel was so tiny that I can't be sure. Took it down to 30 degrees, much better, but it still seemed reluctant to penetrate the outer coating of a dill pickle. This is a 6" utility/petty knife, no idea why it was at 37 degrees, but my next step is down to at least 25 degrees, and I'm think about 20-24.
 
UncleBoots said:
I recently acquired a Japanese VG-10 knife which was beautiful, but I did not like how it cut. Decided to reprofile it, and it was ground at something like 37 degrees! That's not exact, the bevel was so tiny that I can't be sure. Took it down to 30 degrees, much better, but it still seemed reluctant to penetrate the outer coating of a dill pickle. This is a 6" utility/petty knife, no idea why it was at 37 degrees, but my next step is down to at least 25 degrees, and I'm think about 20-24.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing youre talking about inclusive. I did my utility at 13 degrees per side and then polished it real good, my wife loves it! I will admit that she has not peeled any dill pickles but she does a lot of potatoes and such.
 
K80Shooter said:
I'm guessing youre talking about inclusive. I did my utility at 13 degrees per side and then polished it real good, my wife loves it! I will admit that she has not peeled any dill pickles but she does a lot of potatoes and such.
Click to expand...

I did not know that there are multiple ways to talk about edge angles. Would you explain? My numbers come from using the angle cube on my Hapstone -- measure the angle at the flat, zero the cube, then measure the angle of the stone holder relative to that zero.
 
UncleBoots said:
I did not know that there are multiple ways to talk about edge angles. Would you explain? My numbers come from using the angle cube on my Hapstone -- measure the angle at the flat, zero the cube, then measure the angle of the stone holder relative to that zero.
Click to expand...

If after the above you are seeing say a 30.0 then that is way too much. It would be a 60 degree inclusive, 30 degrees on each side. If that's correct I understand why you say they are not sharp. Which hapstone do you have? Either way After you reset the cube to zero place the rod/stone on the blade and it should be at about 13.0 to 15.0 (I also check both sides just to make sure they are the same to start with, if not make sure everything is tight. Both sides should be real close if not exact when you start) Reset/check the angle every time you swap to another stone as each one is a different thickness.

AF1QipM-Nsne6iCgJ7Yo0OZtRglvj7EW23CXVnNtE1g5
 
Last edited:
Your angle cube gives the degrees on one side of blade. So if you measure by that, say 30degrees, when you INCLUDE the other side of knife you add another 30 degrees. Hence 60 degrees INCLUSIVE.
 
Thanks for the inclusive angle explanation. My Hapstone is the R1. Here are some other angles I measured in exactly the same way:

Forschner slicing knife (thin blade, has those little divots for grease): 25.2
Sugimoto stainless cleaver: 25
The crappy Chef's knife with crappy steel that I let my wife put in the dishwasher: 35
Global paring knife: 17.8
Global boning knife: 27
Large Buck knife: 15
Small Buck knife: 19.5

Talk of 11-15 degree angles makes me wonder if something in my measuring process is systematically off.
 
The only thing that I have that is above 19 degrees is my cleaver. I set it at 25 degrees.
I do my lawnmower blades at 30 degrees.
I do hunting knives at 19 degrees.
All my good kitchen knives are 15 degrees or less.
I do have some cheap knives that wont hold an edge that I do on 19 degrees also.

Do this, take the global paring knife and reprofile it at either 13 or 15 then see how you like that. Keep in mind if the steel is cheap that it might roll after some use, that's when you just touch it up a little.

I also have a Hapstone R-1, it was my 1st guided sharpener.
 
Also most factory edges are set way too steep to start with. I purchased a cheapo paring knife at wally world and it was set at 24 degrees which in my opinion is way too steep for a paring knife. My wife will not use it like that, then again I might have just spoiled her.
 
With softer European steels, before the introduction of harder Japanese steels to the American market, it was common to have knives ground to 20 degrees per side. Cleavers would be 25-30 degrees per.
Now some of the name brands go down to 15 degrees, but I don't know if they heat treat above 58HRC. Not a great combination in my opinion.
 
O Ourorboros I think you would find the report below interesting. While X50CrMoV15 (similar to 1.4116, Krupps 4116, the most widely used steel in German cutlery I believe) performed below the better steels at all angles it did its best at 12° per side in terms of retained sharpness after 100 roller cycles. So did M390 and S290. D2 however did its best at 15° per side.

wootzblade said:
What edge angle is good for supersteels - Part 1: The Experiment.

What edge angle is good for supersteels - Part 2: Data, discussion and conclusions

Printable report of this experimental research:
http://knifegrinders.com.au/SET/What_Edge_Angle_Good_for_Supersteels.pdf
Click to expand...
 
M Mr.Wizard
Frankly, surprising. As is standard for a J-knife user, I haven't been impressed with the edge holding of X50 in German kitchen knives.
I'm glad somebody did the work, showing orthodoxy wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top