vg-10 losing an edge fast after sharpening O.o

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kimberfan

Joined
Feb 8, 2011
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so i got my endura 4 a few days ago and it was shaving sharp but couldnt push cut so knowing me i had to tinker with it :D i got it push cutting and hair popping sharp but today i went to use it for the first time with the new edge, i sliced open 2 bags of garden amender compost and noticed the edge would no longer pop hair or even shave :( so i messed around and cut some small branches with it and cut it some more to dull it more maybe seeing if it was the steel and it dint dull it at all

i dont get it :mad:

what do you guys think? i'm betting a wire edge but idk, i sharpend it on a fine diamond at 750grit stropped it then my extra fine arkansas then stropped again with green compound all tho i should of used my extra fine diamond in between i guess
 
So the bags of compost dulled it but the branches didnt? I would also think wire edge but if you were cutting through a sandy material it could have taken its toll on the edge.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
So the bags of compost dulled it but the branches didnt? I would also think wire edge but if you were cutting through a sandy material it could have taken its toll on the edge.
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It is manure based compost with minamal amounts of dirt/sand tho, the branches didnt even come close to dulling it, the chips seem to be on the bevel and not the edge. Should i form a burr on all grits and strop it off in between?
 
Stropping it just gave it back its super sharp edge O.o still have that little nick in the bevel tho
 
Oh yeh, I used an endura a lot at my farm before where I cut bags of feed and fertilizer, rope both nylon and organic fiber, green and dry wood, bamboo, etc.. First of all, that hair whittling, shaving edge is quickly lost with all the steels I've tried(S30V, M4, ZDP, and even 20CP). When the edge stabilizes into a working edge, it will last for a while especially if the edge has been properly sharpened. Second, I find that an edge that has dulled enough so it won't cut through cardboard without tearing will still slice slivers of wood cleanly. Third of all, I find that even minimal amounts of dirt and sand(barely visible) will trash an edge right quick.
 
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I'd say it's possible that you have a wire edge. In between grits, I do not strop the edge, I'll just remove the burr with the stone that I'm currently on by using EXTREMELY light strokes. Then move on to the next grit.
 
singularity35 said:
Oh yeh, I used an endura a lot at my farm before where I cut bags of feed and fertilizer, rope both nylon and organic fiber, green and dry wood, bamboo, etc.. First of all, that hair whittling, shaving edge is quickly lost with all the steels I've tried(S30V, M4, ZDP, and even 20CP). When the edge stabilizes into a working edge, it will last for a while especially if the edge has been properly sharpened. Second, I find that an edge that has dulled enough so it won't cut through cardboard without tearing will still slice slivers of wood cleanly. Third of all, I find that even minimal amounts of dirt and sand(barely visible) will trash an edge right quick.
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hmm sounds like my edge was fine then and i was just expecting too much lol the compost did have "forest floor" stuff in it so prolly dirt/sand the working edge seemed to hold well very well in fact and just stropping made it pop hair again
 
Sometimes I find that going overboard with the finishing/polishing process can cause a burr--I usually find that it works best to go straight from a fine grit like 600 to something super fine like 1000, to stropping, and be done with it. And when I strop, I only need a handful of passes per side after the Fine stone on the Sharpmaker to finish the edge. Sometime if I go overboard stropping, it actually does more harm that good, and I end up going back to the stone for a minute to redo it, then a quick strop to finish.

PS-Like you said, it sounds like a burr. For me, sharpened and stropped VG-10 will last plenty long, it forms a very fine and polished edge.

BTW, when you use a very fine and polished edge, you need frequent stropping, usually daily touchups, to maintain it to a decent level. On a coarser edge, it will be lost sooner, but because of all the micro-serrations, it doesn't need as many touch-ups because it acts like a saw practically.
 
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kimberfan said:
hmm sounds like my edge was fine then and i was just expecting too much lol the compost did have "forest floor" stuff in it so prolly dirt/sand the working edge seemed to hold well very well in fact and just stropping made it pop hair again
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That ease of sharpening is what I love about VG-10(one of my favorite steels). :D
 
I find some guys here only sharpen there knife on a 600 grit stone, and call 1000grit stone is ultra fine...wall I usually sharpen mine at 600, then on 800 and on 2000, is it too fine or what?
vg10 holds a razor edge longer than s30v right? that's why I can keep my knife hair poppin' sharp
 
Dao.Hung_105 said:
I find some guys here only sharpen there knife on a 600 grit stone, and call 1000grit stone is ultra fine...wall I usually sharpen mine at 600, then on 800 and on 2000, is it too fine or what?
vg10 holds a razor edge longer than s30v right? that's why I can keep my knife hair poppin' sharp
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What stones do you use?
 
singularity35 said:
Oh yeh, I used an endura a lot at my farm before where I cut bags of feed and fertilizer, rope both nylon and organic fiber, green and dry wood, bamboo, etc.. First of all, that hair whittling, shaving edge is quickly lost with all the steels I've tried(S30V, M4, ZDP, and even 20CP). When the edge stabilizes into a working edge, it will last for a while especially if the edge has been properly sharpened. Second, I find that an edge that has dulled enough so it won't cut through cardboard without tearing will still slice slivers of wood cleanly. Third of all, I find that even minimal amounts of dirt and sand(barely visible) will trash an edge right quick.
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I agree with everything here.
 
Just an FYI, the bags of compost and manure that I have used are a mix and only part compost or part manure. They are mixed with dirt for I imagine bulk as well as to dilute the soil some. I imagine pure compost or manure could be strong enough to burn the roots of some plants. It doesn't take cutting much material containing sand to dull an edge in my experience. If you have some sharpening experience and don't think you had a wire edge then you probably are just underestimating the amount of sand and what it can do to a keen edge.

Also, VG10 usually rolls instead of chips so it sounds like you used it fairly hard. If it actually chipped while sharpening then there might be some brittle/ weak metal at the very edge most likely from the heat treating process. A little use, sharpening, and metal removal at the edge may improve the way the knife behaves quite a bit.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
Just an FYI, the bags of compost and manure that I have used are a mix and only part compost or part manure. They are mixed with dirt for I imagine bulk as well as to dilute the soil some. I imagine pure compost or manure could be strong enough to burn the roots of some plants. It doesn't take cutting much material containing sand to dull an edge in my experience. If you have some sharpening experience and don't think you had a wire edge then you probably are just underestimating the amount of sand and what it can do to a keen edge.

Also, VG10 usually rolls instead of chips so it sounds like you used it fairly hard. If it actually chipped while sharpening then there might be some brittle/ weak metal at the very edge most likely from the heat treating process. A little use, sharpening, and metal removal at the edge may the way the knife behaves quite a bit.
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i dont think i used it that hard lol my gerber in ats34 would laugh at the stuff i did. Anyway 2 odd things first i cant seem to get the chip out with sharpening even tho its on the edge i even raised a burr on a 350grit diamond stone, second it has another extramly small chip fron cutting corn of the cob for dinner i might of lightly touched the plate but my cheapie kitchen knives do better which is odd :(
 
Dao.Hung_105 said:
No stone, since I convexed all of my blade, I use sand paper
It works pretty well, but I a;ways ant my blade to be even more shiny :P
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Well, you want shiny? Strop it on leather with diamond paste. That's gonna get you're bevels shiny. And no, I don't think 2000 grit is too fine. Here's my orange millie finished with 1micron diamond paste on balsa wood.

orangemilliemirror2.jpg
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Hi Kimberfan.

When sharpening with an abrasive (stone, etc.), one is usually leading with the cutting edge. The burr is cut away from the edge. When stroppig, one is trailing with the cutting edge, actually forming a burr. That's why one strops a razor for shaving, rather than sharpen on a stone. Stropping brings out the burr, which works best when shaving. It sounds like you moving a burr which "comes out" when stropping, but is not a strong enough edge to support cutting harder materials than hair. What angle are you sharpening at? Do you use a loupe?

sal
 
The most consistent way I've ever come up with for immediately removing a wire edge is taking a piece of scarp hardwood (maple or oak work great) and pull the edge perpendicularly across it from ricasso to tip. You don't have to really bare down, just put a little pressure on it so that the edge is cutting into the wood a little bit. This medium is soft enough to not dull or damage the edge bevel (not in one pull, anyway) but the wire edge will embed and tear off. Do this during your sharpening as the edge is really beginning to feel sharp, and then check again. If your true bevels aren't quite meeting yet, you'll see the shiny spots. I haven't chased a wire edge in fifteen years. :)
 
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