VG-10 vs. 8Cr13Mov (Spyderco vs. Byrd)

einsteinjon

einsteinjon

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So I recently got a Spyderco Endura 4 and love the quality of the blade steel (although the handle seems a little unimpressive, but I digress). My question is how much better is the VG-10 steel in a Spyderco vs. the 8Cr13Mov steel in a Byrd? I am interested in getting at least one more, but I could get 3 or 4 Byrds for the same price. Are the properties/qualities of VG-10 that much better than 8Cr13Mov that I should pay upwards of $40 more for a single knife, or is 8Cr13Mov a good steel that I can be comfortable buying 3 or 4 knives instead for about the same price?

Thanks for the wisdom guys...:thumbup:
 
In my experience both are good steels as Spyderco heat treats them. I prefer VG10 because it has slightly better corrosion resistance and edge holding, and I find it burrs a bit less when sharpening, which makes achieving the upper ranges of sharpness more easy.

That said, the Byrd steel is still servicable. It's stable under very acute edges, and will readily take hair whittling sharp edges with good technique, and in most cases corrosion shouldn't come into play. Only time I found the latter to be a concern is on hot summer days where I'm sweating a lot and might forget to keep the blade wiped down. Even then it's just some surface discoloration that can be polished off easily. Same thing will happen to most steels if you leave them unattended.

If a Byrd design speaks to you, try it out. They're very good knives, though I favor my Spydercos to them.

If you feel like playing with a really nice blade steel, the ZDP189 Endura's and Delica's are a good purchase, but require some reprofiling to really shine.
 
Vivi got it down. I think VG-10 is totally superior to 8cr, but for what you pay... 8cr is pretty good stuff. I've only had my Tenacious for about 2 weeks (been in my pocket the whole time), and through some light use so far, it's still a razor. I have 4 Enduras and a delica, so I have plenty of VG-10s, I think I'm gunna go for some Byrds next. You already have an Endura, get a delica, and then a spydie tenacious or Byrd cara cara, or flight. Yes the VG-10 spydercos are better, but for the price, the 8cr blades arent bad.

P.S. keep using the endura... It took me a while to get into the FRN handles, but now I love em.
 
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From what i heard, 8cr is equivalent to AUS8. Correct me if i'm wrong. VG-10 is my favorite steel! I, myself, have the Caly3 in VG-10 and the Tenacious (8cr). I EDC my caly3, so i'll probably end up giving away my tenacious to someone i know in the future.
 
einsteinjon said:
So I recently got a Spyderco Endura 4 and love the quality of the blade steel (although the handle seems a little unimpressive, but I digress). My question is how much better is the VG-10 steel in a Spyderco vs. the 8Cr13Mov steel in a Byrd? I am interested in getting at least one more, but I could get 3 or 4 Byrds for the same price. Are the properties/qualities of VG-10 that much better than 8Cr13Mov that I should pay upwards of $40 more for a single knife, or is 8Cr13Mov a good steel that I can be comfortable buying 3 or 4 knives instead for about the same price?

Thanks for the wisdom guys...:thumbup:
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It depends on what you are looking for and what your use habits are.

For some, quality is more important than quantity. For others, it's the quantity and variety that's important. I have both Spyderco's and Byrds. I find that the fit and finish of Spydercos is superior to that of Byrds. The edges are better finished, the balance is a bit better. Fine points to be sure, but to me those differences are important. I will likely buy more Spydercos. Probably not any more Byrds. (Don't get me wrong. I find the Byrds a great value. But I'd prefer to spend a bit more and get a bit more.)

As far as actual usage:
VG10 holds an edge a fair sight longer than 8Cr13MoV. VG10 is also more corrosion resistant. But 8Cr13MoV still holds an edge plenty well for most daily use.

A lot of folks only use their knives a few times a day. Others have need to do lots of cutting on a daily basis. For those who have to do a lot of cutting, VG10 is the way to go. For those who don't cut up 20 cardboard boxes a day, either steel is great.

I've done side by side manila rope cutting comparisons with various steels. I found that AUS8 and 8Cr13MoV have about the same edge retention when hardened to the same HRC. I find the VG10 holds an edge measurably better, enough better to be noticeable in daily use.

In the end you need to decide what parameters are important to you.
 
8Cr13MoV and VG10 are both excellent steels as Spyderco treats them. I do prefer VG10 for EDC knives, but you can't go wrong.

I particularly like the 8CR13MoV in my Byrd Wings.

Go for either. :thumbup:
 
I don't plan on using the 8Cr13Mov for anything extreme or heavy duty, so I think I'm gonna buy a couple Byrds (Cara Cara and Wings) and see how they perform. Like I said, I love the VG-10, but if the Byrd is acceptable I can't argue with more knives for the money.
 
I am sure you will warm up to the FRN handles of the Endura. I love mine. At first I thought it was "cheap" but FRN is actually a fantastic handle material, very durable and quite solid.
 
For Sh!t$ and giggles I batoned a little with my tenacious, i was actually testing the lock, and it held its edge. My old, old enduras in AUS8 have never rusted or been a problem so I expect the 8cr13MoV will do just fine.
 
SEH95B said:
For Sh!t$ and giggles I batoned a little with my tenacious, i was actually testing the lock, and it held its edge. My old, old enduras in AUS8 have never rusted or been a problem so I expect the 8cr13MoV will do just fine.
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Interesting! How'd the lock hold up?
 
carrot said:
I am sure you will warm up to the FRN handles of the Endura. I love mine. At first I thought it was "cheap" but FRN is actually a fantastic handle material, very durable and quite solid.
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I like the feel (texturing and material itself). I like the strength. etc. etc. I DON'T like the light weight of it. It doesn't feel very substantial in my hand. Being that it's almost a 4" blade, and roughly 1/8" thick, the knife feels slightly front-heavy in hand. I think it could be a tad more balanced by adding a little weight in the handle. I'm probably just nitpicking about personal preferences with this, and yes I tried balancing the knife on my index finger where the finger naturally grabs...it balanced nice and steady...BUT personal preference is to have a slightly heavier handle.
 
einsteinjon said:
I don't plan on using the 8Cr13Mov for anything extreme or heavy duty, so I think I'm gonna buy a couple Byrds (Cara Cara and Wings) and see how they perform. Like I said, I love the VG-10, but if the Byrd is acceptable I can't argue with more knives for the money.
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The Cara Cara is one of the best designs on the market for the money. Make sure you get the newer version that's thinner and lighter with it's skeletonized liners. I find it very comfortable and well balanced, with a useful finger choil for detailed work. The design in G10 feels more comfortable and balanced to me than the Endura (Agree with your front heavy observation)...but the Endura does come in ZDP189 :)
 
einsteinjon said:
I don't plan on using the 8Cr13Mov for anything extreme or heavy duty, so I think I'm gonna buy a couple Byrds (Cara Cara and Wings) and see how they perform. Like I said, I love the VG-10, but if the Byrd is acceptable I can't argue with more knives for the money.
Click to expand...

A quite reasonable decision.
 
You should really look hard at the Spyderco Tenacious. I have it, the Cara Cara, and a Endura 4 w/G10 and a flat grind. All three are very good to excellent knives. The flat grind VG-10 Endura is one of the best knives a man can put in his pocket for EDC. The Cara Cara is a poor man's Endura but never the less a great value. Now the Tenacious is a compromise...flat grind and better quality construction but still Chinese built and 8C13. Of the three, I prefer the size and blade shape of the Tenacious and tend to EDC it more than the Endura.

I think Syderco should send the Tenacious to Seki City where my Endura was produced and tell them to make this knife with VG10 and that pretty sage green G-10. I'll buy that one as soon as they make it.

One comment on quantity over quality...you'll find yourself very quickly with more knives than you can possibly use or enjoy. I would say start out by making value purchases (like the Tenacious) and determine what your preferences are in a knife and then drop the big coin on the knife with the best steel, best materials, and construction that nails those preferences and you have a knife you'll keep and use for a very very long time.

Anyway that's my 2 cents.

Here is a link with some good reviews on steel. It says Summary : 8C13CrMoV is basically an upgrade to 13C26 in terms of wear resistance while reducing edge stability. Thus it offers better extended slicing aggression though lower optimal push cutting sharpness and high sharpness edge retention.
However, the chart with the elements looks like 8C13 and AUS-8A are a dead ringer. Anyway, I like the stuff and have no problem with it.

http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/blade_materials.html#C_52100
 
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