VG-10 Vs. S30V Vs. 154 CM

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initb2009

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Jul 7, 2009
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I have used 154 CM and really like it.I have never owned,used, or handeled VG-10 or S30V. Is VG-10 or S30V better than 154 CM? What are the downsides to VG-10 and S30V? and what are the advantages of VG-10 and S30V?
 
I think VG-10 is on par with 154cm in edge retention and ease of sharpening. S30v is harder, can be more prone to chipping, and is a little harder to sharpen, but it should should an edge longer than the other two.
 
As TrickyVic said VG10 and 154cm are just about equal. S30v will hold an edge a little longer because it is a harder steel. Because it is harder it will chip a little easier. I have never had a problem with s30v chipping, but other people have. All three steels are stainless, so that is not really an issue. IMO 154 will take a more polished edge then s30v. S30v is great for a "toothey" edge.

The largest advantage of s30v over the other two steels is going to be the edge retention.
 
I agree with Tiny86. Remember too that heat treat plays an important roll in a given steel's performance. So, for example, different makers' S30V is not necessarily going to have exactly the same characteristics.
 
initb2009 said:
I have used 154 CM and really like it.I have never owned,used, or handeled VG-10 or S30V. Is VG-10 or S30V better than 154 CM? What are the downsides to VG-10 and S30V? and what are the advantages of VG-10 and S30V?
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Legitimate question but better for what? All are good steels but as to their relative worth? - there are just too many variables. IMO there is too much of a focus on what steel is being used - steel type alone does not tell the whole story.

1 Variations batch to batch - every steel type has a tolerance range so you can get significant differences between one billet and the next
2 Skill of the knifemaker
3 Blade/edge profile and thickness - these all play a part in how well a knife cuts vs strength vs edge retention and ease of sharpening.
4 Heat treatment - possibly the cause for more differences between manufacturers using the same steel than anything else - but even in the same batch of knives you will get some variations depending on the expertise of the handler, position in the forge and slight variations in temperatures and handling times.

This is why you will get such a wide range of user responses when discussing steels. I rely on the recommendations and reviews in BF and other forums when choosing my knives but I do not buy purely on what steel is used.
 
VG10 should be about the same in edge retention when compared to 154CM. It should also be a little more stain resistant and take a finer edge. S30V will have the best edge retention and take a nice edge. It won't be the greatest on stain resistance tho.

I would rank them as:

1. VG10
2. S30V
3. 154CM

VG10 doesn't have the quite the same edge retention as S30V but with the good vanadium content it takes an insanely fine edge. Edge retention is good enough for me, I think it's the best compromise between retention and sharpening ease. And the stain resistance is good as well. I'll use H1 for any situation that may involve harsh conditions.

I think we don't see it more widely used because it is a Japanese steel. You got to go to the higher end overseas knives to find it, Spyderco seems to like it.
 
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VG-10 is my favorite stainless and I wish it wasn't limited to Japanese knives.
 
S30V has the stainless properties of 440C, so it's up there. On par with VG-10.

VG-10 takes a much finer edge then 154CM, and holds it a hair longer. It's very stainless as well.

S30V takes a finer edge then 154CM, and holds it about 30% longer. I notice a difference in sharpness between my 154CM blades and my S30V blades at the end of the day. Chipping with S30V is old news. When it first came out there were some heat treat problems, but the kinks are all gone now. If you're hearing reports of chipping it's either abuse or a fluke.

154CM is a great steel. Takes a fine edge, very stainless, good edge retention. The average person wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 154CM, VG-10, and S30V. 154CM is often under rated with all the hype about S30V. I think it's a very serviceable steel. American made and cheap to boot.
 
Josh K said:
S30V has the stainless properties of 440C, so it's up there. On par with VG-10.
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Well it really depends on how you look at it. VG10 is quite resistant to any staining, which is why it is so popular among the kitchen cutlery. Given enough exposure it can still stain and pit.

S30V on the other hand can stain easier and develop surface rust. But Crucible set out to make it a very pitting resistant steel. So while S30V will develop surface rust (as my ZT302 has before) it is going to take some serious exposure and neglect to make it pit.

And then the finish on the steel has a lot to do with it and is probably a bigger deal breaker than the steel itself. The smoother you get the steel the more resistant it will be. My ZT 302 has a pretty rough bead blasted finish on it (parts of blade that are not coated) which is probably why it developed some surface rust. A smoother S30V probably would have fared better.
 
The Lahar is made in japan.

I'm with Joshk. I like the ER of VG10 better than 154cm and I've found it to hold just as good as my Native (my only S30V). Rust isnt a problem with any of them.
 
VG10 is also my favorite steel. It has the best balance of edge retention to ease of sharpening and it gets extremely sharp very easily.
 
Having carried a Reeve for a couple of years now, I'm pretty much sold on S30V.

But what about CPM154? I hear it's easier to work with during the production phase than 154CM, since it pretty much doesn't have a grain structure, but how does it compare functionally to VG10, S30V and 154CM?
 
tjsulli790 said:
Well it really depends on how you look at it. VG10 is quite resistant to any staining, which is why it is so popular among the kitchen cutlery. Given enough exposure it can still stain and pit.

S30V on the other hand can stain easier and develop surface rust. But Crucible set out to make it a very pitting resistant steel. So while S30V will develop surface rust (as my ZT302 has before) it is going to take some serious exposure and neglect to make it pit.

And then the finish on the steel has a lot to do with it and is probably a bigger deal breaker than the steel itself. The smoother you get the steel the more resistant it will be. My ZT 302 has a pretty rough bead blasted finish on it (parts of blade that are not coated) which is probably why it developed some surface rust. A smoother S30V probably would have fared better.
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I have numerous knives in S30V and none of them have developed any surface rust. Including carrying them IWB and leaving them soaked in salt water.
 
I like all three and have several knives in each steel.

Bear in mind, the type of steel is just one factor in a knife. There are several others, primarily edge profile and heat treatment. But these are all fine steels and the leading manufacturers know how to get the best out of them.

S30V can be a beeyotch to sharpen if the edge profile is not thin. If you're buying Spyderco then get S30V - they get a lot of this steel. I have abused one of my Spydies made of S30V and it stood up very well. No chips at all!

Spydie also use VG-10 successfully. I also have a SOG in this steel. I have no reason to doubt its worth. It sharpens very easily and seems to hold an edge well, though not as long as S30V.

I have several Emersons of 154CM and they are all excellent knives. Edge holding is excellent, sharpening is a breeze.

I would say each is very worthy with S30V perhaps holding a slight edge over the others. Pun intended!
 
I think that there isn't enough difference in the steels to make that a deciding factor. I've bought 2-S30V blades recently and 1-154CM and they are all fantastic. If you find a knife design that looks good, feels good, is reasonably priced, and has any of these three steels, you'll be a happy camper.
 
I own knives of all three steels, and VG10 is the best in my opinion. Yes, S30V holds a great edge, but I just never seem to be able to get it as sharp as VG10. There is just something about VG10 that makes its edge laser sharp. Even if you give it a toothier edge, it still sails through just about anything. It's quite tough for a stainless, too. Definitely my favorite of stainless steels.
 
I like all three, but favor S30V just a tad more due to the fine grain structure and ease of sharpening.

I don't know what you guys are talking about, but S30V seems a little easier to sharpen than VG-10 and 154CM :confused: I've always liked 154CM because of Emerson Knives. I have an Emerson Commander that I've beat to death and brought back from the dead (put a new bevel on it) and it's still kicking. As for VG-10, it is a very polished steel that seems very stain resistant to me. I think the edge holding is very similar to 154CM.

Now, S30V I've had a lot of experience with on different knives. It seems to sharpen up easier, takes stropping great, and holds it's edge for a good while. A good example of 154CM vs S30V would be the benchmade griptilian. The standard griptilian is in 154CM, but the "improved" Ritter Grip 552 has S30V for it's well known edge holding capabilities.

I hope this helps, J.
 
I agree with the VG-10 love here. It takes an insane edge. I have not been happy with S30V or 154CM.
 
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